equality only goes one way?

[PaulCa]

In work we have "International Women's Days", but no "International Men's Day".

We have a women's only email DL list, but no "mens only".

The issue I have with pushing for equality to hard is it dilutes diversity. By treating everyone exactly the same we prevent the ability to promote people based on their abilities. Let's be frank and honest, men and women are different. "Stereotypically" they each have strengths and weaknesses. Not all of them, but statistically speaking the biological and physiological differences are there and each gender has strengths and weaknesses. By creating just "cookie cutter person" we lose those strengths while still retaining the weaknesses.

 

[placeholder]

some interesting points rasied re front line police and prison officers. the army medic one is interesting also if one of the requirements it to carry a fully grown man a certain distance then they should be able to do that. if they cant they don't get the job simple as that

I have a male friend who is a Police Officer in Glasgow and as you can imagine gets into some pretty potentially violent situations as a result. He is 100% of the belief that men and women are NOT equal in terms of their contribution in said violent situations (on the whole and on the average, there will always be exceptions). When he goes into these environments with a female officer he says he usually feels more vulnerable if it kicks off because the female is usually more slight and less able in violent situations. HOWEVER and it is a very big however, in almost all situations when he goes in with a female officer he is far more likely to get a non-violent outcome in the end. Go into the druggies flat where there has been a disturbance and two males will often end up in a physical altercation. Go in male and female and the female will be able to reason with the occupants and have them far more willing to comply.

He has no axe to grind either way and this is just his observations. Both have their very valuable place in the Police Force but there seems a lack of willingness to accept that you can be equal but different and that equality doesn't always have to equal "the same".

 

[Nasher]

In work we have "International Women's Days", but no "International Men's Day".

We have a women's only email DL list, but no "mens only".

The issue I have with pushing for equality to hard is it dilutes diversity. By treating everyone exactly the same we prevent the ability to promote people based on their abilities. Let's be frank and honest, men and women are different. "Stereotypically" they each have strengths and weaknesses. Not all of them, but statistically speaking the biological and physiological differences are there and each gender has strengths and weaknesses. By creating just "cookie cutter person" we lose those strengths while still retaining the weaknesses.

Kick up a fuss about only women being allowed on the women's only list is prejudice in the workplace

 

[233]

I have a male friend who is a Police Officer in Glasgow and as you can imagine gets into some pretty potentially violent situations as a result. He is 100% of the belief that men and women are NOT equal in terms of their contribution in said violent situations (on the whole and on the average, there will always be exceptions). When he goes into these environments with a female officer he says he usually feels more vulnerable if it kicks off because the female is usually more slight and less able in violent situations. HOWEVER and it is a very big however, in almost all situations when he goes in with a female officer he is far more likely to get a non-violent outcome in the end. Go into the druggies flat where there has been a disturbance and two males will often end up in a physical altercation. Go in male and female and the female will be able to reason with the occupants and have them far more willing to comply.

He has no axe to grind either way and this is just his observations. Both have their very valuable place in the Police Force but there seems a lack of willingness to accept that you can be equal but different and that equality doesn't always have to equal "the same".

its a fantastically made point and pretty much sums it up

 

[KillBoY_UK]

I view myself as a 1987 Bedford TM 4x4 Truck.

 

[Haggisman]

No, I recall how at least two male homosexual teachers behaved at school camp, I don't think homosexuals and young kids in a sleep together environment is a healthy idea at all!

Wow.

I realised from some of your posting history that you're quite bigoted, but you've basically just come out and said you think that all homeosexuals are paedophiles...

 

[krooton]

Wow.

I realised from some of your posting history that you're quite bigoted, but you've basically just come out and said you think that all homeosexuals are paedophiles...

Noooo, you fed him

 

[PaulCa]

Kick up a fuss about only women being allowed on the women's only list is prejudice in the workplace

I was tempted to ask to be added to it. Then raising it as sexism when refused.

What was completely over the top when on International Women's day, they all got gifts. Nothing 'we' men would want, but it still felt sexist and discriminatory

 

[ttaskmaster]

But we have man-women who insist they are real women and kick off when people disagree.

Would they continue trying to argue the toss if they got prostate cancer, do you think?

but when, and based on what criteria, should you favour one biological group over the other, based purely on their biological identity?

Well, as a company (hypothetically) that makes tampons and sanitary towels, I would be quite certain that we could make products for women only and not be subject to a pissy lawsuit by some SJW blokes who have their wife's panties in a twist over the fact that we don't make male versions....

But just in case, we do already have a marketing campaign planned, including a jingle sung by the cheapest between Brian johnson or Ronnie James Dio:
"WHOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHH, Blokey-forrrrrrrrrrm..... Blokey-formed for youuuuuuuuuu!!!"

I'm favouring Brian, personally.

Like "Women should be 50/50 represented in all tech jobs" and the like.

Yes indeed... and if you can find 50 women who want to shovel **** out of sewer pipes for a living, we would gladly employ them... The vacancy adverts are out there, but the women aren't being enticed. What could we possibly be doing wrong?

And when you dig into it they don't want equality, just equal pay.

Oh, we offer that... in fact, the few women who are in such roles actually get higher pay, even.

But it sounds good to use the word equality and those doing it imply a certain moral high ground... instead of the agenda they might actually have.

I'm sure they change their mind when they realise equality means the same amount of **** as well as the same reward...!

We have a women's only email DL list, but no "mens only".

Surely the 'Men Only' one just routes everything to the top shelf of your local newsagent...?

 

[danlightbulb]

Rather than the point that someone brought up earlier; that being that women's sport is not always exactly equal to men's sport. And in some cases that's fine. E.g. I see no reason why women shouldn't play less tennis sets than men. I don't see either "they should" or "they shouldn't" as necessarily correct. When you watch women's tennis the competition between two female competitors is the point of interest; that they don't compete in exactly the same circumstances as the men compete isn't really an issue to me.

And their pay could be argued either way also. You could look at gate receipts/broadcaster interest as a reason to pay women less. Or you could argue that women are equally dedicated as the male counterparts, training as long and as just as hard to reach the top. That you should treat the income from both men and women as total income for the sport, and divide it equally among men and women. However in football that would just not wash. Can you imagine Chelsea, etc, agreeing to pay their female footballers the same (obscene) wages as the men? Business interest vs "equality" - in that case nobody should doubt the business interests win! In fact I'd love to see a Women's PL player try to sue for equal pay. Not sure why when other employers are bound by equality rules, that sporting organisations aren't...

I dont see why women shouldnt play the same amount of sets as men do in tennis tbh. Women footballers play 90 minutes. I assume its just antiquated rules that need some pressure (by the players themselves) to change. Why dont these girls form their own tennis organisation if they want change?

On pay however its simple demand. Like it or not there is much higher demand and direct and indirect revenues for mens sports than womens sports. Thats driven by the amount of interest that men have in sport compared to women, in general and on average.

No point arguing whether it should or shouldnt be that way, it just is that way. if change happens let it happen naturally (through more women liking or taking up sport). This starts of course, as most things do, in schools. That is where equal opportunities are most important.

 

[Tefal]

Why would you need a female only space?

The idea (that it's needed for women but not for men) suggests that men cannot be trusted.

The idea of a female only space is as legitimate as a male only space. Neither are legitimate, or both are.

Hang on aren't you always the one arguing that men and women are fundamentally differnt. Yet now your argument depends on men and women being identical.

Can't have it both ways

 

[Caracus2k]

Hang on aren't you always the one arguing that men and women are fundamentally differnt. Yet now your argument depends on men and women being identical.

Can't have it both ways

Men and women can (on average) be different whilst retaining the same rights in society and in front of the law with perhaps some minor exceptions in the case of women due to them uniquely bearing children.

 

[Tefal]

Men and women can (on average) be different whilst retaining the same rights in society and in front of the law with perhaps some minor exceptions in the case of women due to them uniquely bearing children.

And both have the right to make a "gender only" safe space.