Poll: Erik ten Hag Sack Watch & Next Manchester United Manager? Sacked. Ruben Amorim appointed.

To sack or not to sack

  • Total voters
    129
spudbynight said:
Honestly I'm not sure if any manager could fix the problems at Man Utd in the short term. No manager is going to be given the medium term, never mind the long term.

Man Utd have a squad of players assembled at huge expense to fix multiple short term issues. The current squad is not a good squad but it is also going to be expensive to offload the bad buys.

In order to fix the structural issues at the club it will require Man Utd to probably spend 3-4 seasons out of contention for the top 4 and probably closer to the middle of the table. Are supporters willing to accept that? Are the club owners willing to accept that?

What Arsenal have done with Arteta is similar to what Man Utd need to do.
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Ten Hag has literally just been given the medium term. He was into his third season and replaced half the squad. Ironically, the players turning up and keeping him in a job were the likes of Maguire and Evans... hilarious really.

It's about progress on the pitch, you can't continue to deteriorate over this length of time, you have to show signs of improvement. That may not mean top 4, it may mean some bad performances and results, but it can't be dire every week.

Performances have been so bad that people have effectively decided we have a rubbish squad, which really isn't the case. Assuming the club continue to invest in the squad, I expect a push for 4th every season, if we fall short, so be it. Hojlund, Garnacho and Rashford are powerful runners and we have one of the best creative midfielders playing behind them in Bruno. That alone should make us more dangerous than half the teams in the league.

I think people are underestimating what a manager can actually do, such is the Ten Hag effect...
 
fez said:
Why would it take that long? We don't have a bad squad at all. Casemiro will likely be gone at the end of the year. Eriksen too. Maguire, Evans and Lindelof will be gone at the end of the season I imagine. Rashford will either sort himself out or be sold soon. Antony will either be repurposed or sold at a massive loss but I don't think his wages are insane.

I agree that it will take a few years of progress to be regularly top 4 again barring a miracle but mid-table? Come on. We are mid table now and we have had a shocking run this season so far.
I think that United are actually in an OK position for the time being. I think that with the right manager and the players working for him we are top 4 candidates with this squad. I think that top 3 is pretty nailed on but that 4th spot is all up for grabs. We're a way off those top 3 but I don't think we are off the rest of the pack if we actually perform to our players abilities.
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Honestly i think your squad is poor and it needs ripping up. Nearly every position needs upgrading.
 
Martynt74 said:
To compete at the top, yeah probably. But as a starting point to be consistently hitting 4-8th i think it's easily there, and better than the other clubs around the same ambitions. It just needs to click.
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Exactly, it's nowhere near the top 3, but outside of that it's not too bad.
 
Martynt74 said:
To compete at the top, yeah probably. But as a starting point to be consistently hitting 4-8th i think it's easily there, and better than the other clubs around the same ambitions. It just needs to click.
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There is not a single player at United id take in Liverpool's match day squad.

If it was easily there you wouldn't be sat in 14th.
 
omnomnom said:
There is not a single player at United id take in Liverpool's match day squad.

If it was easily there you wouldn't be sat in 14th.
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Which is ridiculous because your matchday squad isn't that amazing at Liverpool right now. Your truly top players in that squad are Alisson (injured), Salah, TAA and Robinson. Outside of that you have some good players but a lot of them are just good in your system.

We are sat in 14th because our players couldn't finish and we got one of the world penalty decisions I have seen in a while given against us. We would be above Spurs in 8th if we won our last game alone.
 
omnomnom said:
There is not a single player at United id take in Liverpool's match day squad.
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Based on current "form" - I wouldn't disagree with you but Liverpool have some excellent players, but squad depth is thin outside of the first XI.

However, I think the basis of the squad is there for United, but certainly needs some clarity/focus on how they are going to play. Also a clear out of the dead wood/short term view players. (Casemiro / Eriksen / Evans )

If everyone is fit, there are some excellent young potential players there - Yoro / Garnacho / Hojland / Amad.... Also De Ligt / Martinez / Dalot are fine/decent players.

Just far too many players in that squad that aren't positional players - Are they a winger? Number 9/10 etc etc..... There is way too much confusion with some players as to what their best position is. (See Anthony / Mount / Rashford etc )

I don't think if everyone is fit - ETH or anyone else knows what United best XI is.....

You look at other squads / teams - City / Liverpool etc - They have players for set positions.... United have positions that they fill with players.....

It's a mess of a squad - it's neither building for the future NOR is it for now.... It's a weird halfway house.
 
fez said:
Which is ridiculous because your matchday squad isn't that amazing at Liverpool right now. Your truly top players in that squad are Alisson (injured), Salah, TAA and Robinson. Outside of that you have some good players but a lot of them are just good in your system.

We are sat in 14th because our players couldn't finish and we got one of the world penalty decisions I have seen in a while given against us. We would be above Spurs in 8th if we won our last game alone.
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I think you can probably add Jota and Diaz to that list to be honest. Nunez for all the lols would waltz into Uniteds first 11.
 
omnomnom said:
I think you can probably add Jota and Diaz to that list to be honest. Nunez for all the lols would waltz into Uniteds first 11.
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Both good players but not top top class. My point is that in a highly functional team you don't need 11 star players. You need a few and then the rest of the team is there to enable them. If you stuck 5 of Liverpools players outside of your star players in this United team under EtH, would it magically become a better team? I don't think so.

Player quality isn't the big issue right now, its direction, tactics and coaching. Once that is on the right track you can worry about whether your players are truly elite.
 
fez said:
Both good players but not top top class. My point is that in a highly functional team you don't need 11 star players. You need a few and then the rest of the team is there to enable them. If you stuck 5 of Liverpools players outside of your star players in this United team under EtH, would it magically become a better team? I don't think so.

Player quality isn't the big issue right now, its direction, tactics and coaching. Once that is on the right track you can worry about whether your players are truly elite.
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So you think if you didnt put 5 of for eg :

McAllister
Gravenberch
Diaz
Nunez
VVD
Konate
Szobo
Jones
Elliott
Kelleher
Bradley
Gakpo
Tsimikas

You wouldnt be a better side?
 
Robbo said:
Ten Hag has literally just been given the medium term. He was into his third season and replaced half the squad. Ironically, the players turning up and keeping him in a job were the likes of Maguire and Evans... hilarious really.
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No, he wasn't given the medium term. He was given the short term and he simply managed to stay in place. Nearly all his signings were short term. The pressure on him was for short term success.
 
fez said:
Both good players but not top top class. My point is that in a highly functional team you don't need 11 star players. You need a few and then the rest of the team is there to enable them. If you stuck 5 of Liverpools players outside of your star players in this United team under EtH, would it magically become a better team? I don't think so.

Player quality isn't the big issue right now, its direction, tactics and coaching. Once that is on the right track you can worry about whether your players are truly elite.
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Completely agree with this. I actually think that United have suffered, since SAF, from trying to buy 11 stars and assuming that that will make a good team, and the issues is that 11 stars with nobody functional around them doesn't work (see PSG).

Liverpool have a good balance of "stars" (ALi, TAA, VVD, Salah, and I'd argue that Macca earns a place as well - Jota and Diaz are to my mind "reserve stars" - they play like stars but aren't quite at that level), and functional players (Konate, Robbo, Gravenberch, Gakpo, Szoboslai, and even Nunez).

Even City have this balance, although their functional players (Rodri, Stones, Akanji, Walker/Lewis) are a cut above most.
 
fez said:
Both good players but not top top class. My point is that in a highly functional team you don't need 11 star players. You need a few and then the rest of the team is there to enable them. If you stuck 5 of Liverpools players outside of your star players in this United team under EtH, would it magically become a better team? I don't think so.

Player quality isn't the big issue right now, its direction, tactics and coaching. Once that is on the right track you can worry about whether your players are truly elite.
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Stick Konate, Diaz, Mac Allister, Gravenberch and any one of Jones/Elliot/Nunez/Szoboszlai in your team and your results would improve hugely :cry:
 
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spudbynight said:
No, he wasn't given the medium term. He was given the short term and he simply managed to stay in place. Nearly all his signings were short term. The pressure on him was for short term success.
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I disagree, most of his signings were young unknown players who were being brought in for the future and be developed. They just haven't done that.
 
Martynt74 said:
I disagree, most of his signings were young unknown players who were being brought in for the future and be developed. They just haven't done that.
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Young unknown players? Really? The club spent a lot of money on these young unknown players.

Antony - £90m or so
Mason Mount - £60 or so
Joshua Zirkzee - £35m
Casemiro £60m
Ugarte - £50m
Matthijs de Ligt £45m
Leny Yoro £60m
Rasmus Hojlund £70m or so
Lisandro Martinez £60 or so
 
omnomnom said:
So you think if you didnt put 5 of for eg :

McAllister
Gravenberch
Diaz
Nunez
VVD
Konate
Szobo
Jones
Elliott
Kelleher
Bradley
Gakpo
Tsimikas

You wouldnt be a better side?
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The only ones that would improve us by any real amount are Diaz and VVD, perhaps Jota. I think the rest of them would probably just end up looking average. Even then Diaz plays in the same position as Garnacho and I wouldn't say hes much of an upgrade on him if at all.

I think Liverpool fans rate their players way higher than most simply because the system makes them look good.

Conversely I think you could put a lot of Uniteds underperforming players into that Liverpool side and they would magically look 10x better.
 
I think the players at United have been under performing rather than they are bad players. The players certainly are better than their current league position suggest. United is in such mess from a playing style, coaching POV I don't think even peak Messi would help things. Their biggest problem in the past year isn't creating chances or even scoring (though this season they could clearly do better), but crumbling after going ahead in the game. Leading 2-0 or 3-0 usually should mean you would just run the clock down and win those games. United don't, not against anyone, not even against Newport. It's like they are trying to out do what Spurs do best.
 
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I would be amazed if we don't see a decent bounce after ETH has gone.

The squad is not as bad as the current league position suggests. We've just played like a bunch of strangers 95% of the time, so static everyone has to stop and look and wait to see where the next pass is, it's been painful to watch.
 
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