Euro talks, what are the implications?

[ennogs]

I read if the Euro collapses expect our unemployment to go to about 4 million. Just because we don't have the Euro as our currency does not mean we will not be affected if it collapses.

Also we are the most indebted country in the world.

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/britain-the-most-indebted-nation-on-earth-2299579.html

 

[regulus]

Poll


Leave the EU
stay in EU


Please.

Why?

I doubt there is more than 3 people on this whole forum qualified to make that call. I know I'm not one of them and I follow politics closely. The rest of the time it's knee-jerk reaction and 'DEY TAAKE OUUR JERBS!!!!!!1111' Johnny Foreigner wailing.

We haven't had a referendum on the EU simply because your average moron in the UK cannot tear themselves away from XFactor and celeb culture long enough to educate themselves to make an informed choice.

 

[Biohazard]

Why?

I doubt there is more than 3 people on this whole forum qualified to make that call. I know I'm not one of them and I follow politics closely. The rest of the time it's knee-jerk reaction and 'DEY TAAKE OUUR JERBS!!!!!!1111' Johnny Foreigner wailing.

We haven't had a referendum on the EU simply because your average moron in the UK cannot tear themselves away from XFactor and celeb culture long enough to educate themselves to make an informed choice.

There is no difference between electing governments and deciding on layers of government within the UK.

 

[badcompany]

Why?

I doubt there is more than 3 people on this whole forum qualified to make that call. I know I'm not one of them and I follow politics closely. The rest of the time it's knee-jerk reaction and 'DEY TAAKE OUUR JERBS!!!!!!1111' Johnny Foreigner wailing.

We haven't had a referendum on the EU simply because your average moron in the UK cannot tear themselves away from XFactor and celeb culture long enough to educate themselves to make an informed choice.

Far from knee jerk reaction I personally have been against the EU since the early 90's.I too follow politics closely and i don't watch xfactor/eastender/ etc what's your point that if we don't agree with you we are I'll informed?

 

[regulus]

Far from knee jerk reaction I personally have been against the EU since the early 90's.I too follow politics closely and i don't watch xfactor/eastender/ etc what's your point that if we don't agree with you we are I'll informed?

What made you against the EU? What do you see that all our politicians don't?

 

[wozzizname]

Well, it's now more important than ever that we set about rebuilding industry in this country, as relying on the City to keep us going has got us all in a right mess.

Thatcher decimated industry in this country (admittedly it did need some sorting out back then), and governments since have been following the line that we can get by with just the City and service industries - we can't compete with China in the mass market, and so we'll have to compete against countries like Germany in the upper end of the market, and they've already got a relatively thriving engineering base and will now, no doubt, have other advantages by being in the new treaty zone.

 

[hola_adios]

Well, it's now more important than ever that we set about rebuilding industry in this country, as relying on the City to keep us going has got us all in a right mess.

Thatcher decimated industry in this country (admittedly it did need some sorting out back then), and governments since have been following the line that we can get by with just the City and service industries - we can't compete with China in the mass market, and so we'll have to compete against countries like Germany in the upper end of the market, and they've already got a relatively thriving engineering base and will now, no doubt, have other advantages by being in the new treaty zone.

The problem is that they do not want to do it, we have had short sighted governments. They have relied on the city, stupidly since this only brings capital for a very small percentage, and the way that money flows through society is slow and infective.

Cameron does not have a plan for pretty much nothing, his big thing was the failed "big society" and apart from that, all smoke, not even a lot of noise. The same can be applied to Osborne. At a time of such crisis real leader with a well thought strategy are needed, these "kids" have no idea what to do or what is coming down our way.

 

[SPG]

The damage caused to the economies in Europe was caused by their governments overspending. Blaming the city for their profligacy is ridiculous.

Wrong

It was the city who lent to these governments in the first place. The city causes inflicts more misery on peoples lives. Irrespective of the tax it brings in.

The entire system is corrupt. Fair play to the euro countries wanting to control there evil better than we do.

 

[Amp34]

Well, it's now more important than ever that we set about rebuilding industry in this country, as relying on the City to keep us going has got us all in a right mess.

Thatcher decimated industry in this country (admittedly it did need some sorting out back then), and governments since have been following the line that we can get by with just the City and service industries - we can't compete with China in the mass market, and so we'll have to compete against countries like Germany in the upper end of the market, and they've already got a relatively thriving engineering base and will now, no doubt, have other advantages by being in the new treaty zone.

I'm intrigued by your suggestion industry in this country has fallen down. The only issue with industry in this country in this country is it hasn't kept up with the growth of the other sectors. Unfortunately people still see job losses in heavy steel plants and think that industry is collapsing, rather than industry becoming more specialised, high tech and less manpower intensive... The UK manufacturing industry makes far more money now than it did 50 years ago (in real terms), it's just the service sector had an even bigger increase in money making.

I agree though, more high tech manufacturing would be beneficial, investment in aerospace, computing and other high tech areas rather than George Osbornes seeming obsession with propping up the low profit, man intensive, polluting steel works and cement factories.

 

[Amp34]

Wrong

It was the city who lent to these governments in the first place. The city causes inflicts more misery on peoples lives. Irrespective of the tax it brings in.

The entire system is corrupt. Fair play to the euro countries wanting to control there evil better than we do.

And on this basis should we be vilifying motor companies as well? These companies sell vehicles used to kill innocent people...

Same thing, neither are inherently bad, however a small minority of people are irresponsible and crash/lend money they shouldn't be lending.

 

[Bear]

Wrong

It was the city who lent to these governments in the first place. The city causes inflicts more misery on peoples lives. Irrespective of the tax it brings in.

The entire system is corrupt. Fair play to the euro countries wanting to control there evil better than we do.

Of course I forgot the EU countries actually broke their own rules on controlling deficits and are now making another one and its all the banks fault for lending them the money they wanted to spend.

 

[kierenharrold]

Capitalism, you've got to take the rough with the smooth, and greed and market speculation is part of why the system works and why the system fails. Trying to control it won't work, people will just move somewhere else to make money.

Investors don't care if the Euro collapses, as long as they can make money from it. There's nothing wrong with this, because this is the system we have adopted and is seen as the 'best' system.

This new treaty just tries to control what cannot be controlled, because if you do control it people will just boycott european markets. People seems to forget there are other financial institutions other than Europe. the only way it would have worked if every country in the world also agreed.

 

[dalin80]

Also we are the most indebted country in the world.

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/britain-the-most-indebted-nation-on-earth-2299579.html

Not massively relevant to the situation at hand, household debt isn't really be considered at this level as the concerns are more about trade deficits and government spending. If it were a concern britain would be very quick to lose its AAA credit rating however as it stands ours is currently safer then both france and germany.

We may be in a lot of debt but the austerity measures are working (even if slowly) and Britains finances are currently secure enough to reduce concerns and add a 'being in debt isnt a massive problem as long as you can pay for it' factor, the 2% rates on our 10 year bonds make things a little rosier then bare numbers really show.

Of course this is also presuming the Euro survives, if it collapses then god knows what will happen, other outside factors could also do heavy damage to the economy in the meantime as well, strikers are currently doing their best to force us back into recession and cost us all our jobs.

Of course I forgot the EU countries actually broke their own rules on controlling deficits and are now making another one and its all the banks fault for lending them the money they wanted to spend.

And the one they have added adds a massive tax pretty much solely to london creating a large revenue stream straight into the euro banks.

 

[badcompany]

What made you against the EU? What do you see that all our politicians don't?

Its a undemocratic gravy train for starters.
I have always felt it would lead to trouble we are not like the peoples of Europe we have our own heritage as do they and why try and squeeze us all into a one fit policy? It just won't work as we are witnessing hell in D'lors even said last week it was flawed from the start. [Link]

 

[EdGey]

I wish I knew what was going on here.

Seems almost every site I visit thinks this was a terrible idea. Slightly worrying...

 

[culvers]

I wish I knew what was going on here.

Seems almost every site I visit thinks this was a terrible idea. Slightly worrying...

The thing is, whatever decision cameron made, the media and his opponents would criticise him. Can you ever imagine milliband saying: "yep, cameron made the right decision" it just isnt the way party politics works. They are always on the attack.

 

[badcompany]

The thing is, whatever decision cameron made, the media and his opponents would criticise him. Can you ever imagine milliband saying: "yep, cameron made the right decision" it just isnt the way party politics works. They are always on the attack.

Agreed they would probably done the same thing.

 

[Brookert]

The city lending money to governments is like those pay day loans.

The people who default on their loans blame the system, rather than the fact that they couldn't afford to pay it.

Sending blame elsewhere.

Welcome to the Germanic union...........

 

[Sankari]

This is going to get ****** ugly:

Eurozone tensions mount as summit respite fades

Crisis clouds are darkening over the debt-ridden eurozone after last week's EU summit deal afforded only a brief respite and leaders warned of a two-speed Europe.

Ratings agency Moody's was first to turn the screw. It declared the crisis talks had failed to produce "decisive policy measures" and threatened to review the credit ratings of all EU states within the next three months.

Meanwhile, Italy edged through a bond test, but still had to pay an exceptionally high rate to borrow fresh money for only 12 months.

Traders were watching nervously as Italy's commitment to austerity measures was tested by a nationwide strike, and EU and IMF auditors began talks in Greece on the implementation of its debt bailout.

Asian markets nudged upwards on hopes that the deal would draw a line under the crisis but Europe opened down as concerns returned.

Shortly after lunch (local time) London's FTSE 100 index was down 0.46 per cent, Frankfurt's DAX 30 lost 1.46 per cent and in Paris the CAC 40 shed 1.05 per cent.

European leaders had hoped that Friday's agreement to move towards a fiscal pact, seeking to eradicate their public deficits under close EU supervision, would reassure markets nervous about their massive debts being repaid.

But on Monday they were also forced to admit that Britain's decision to stay out of the deal meant there was now a split, two-speed Europe.

(Source).

 

[Macro]

I feel at times like this we should refer to the wisdom of Sir Humphrey, and possibly the greatest sit-com of all time, "Yes Minister":

Sir Humphrey Appleby: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last 500 years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now when it's worked so well?

James Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely.

Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased, it's just like old times.

James Hacker: But if that's true, why is the foreign office pushing for higher membership?

Sir Humphrey Appleby: I'd have thought that was obvious. The more members an organization has, the more arguments it can stir up. The more futile and impotent it becomes.

James Hacker: What appalling cynicism.

Sir Humphrey Appleby: We call it diplomacy, Minister.