European court: You are allowed to resell your steam games

[Kotu]

they could limit the transfer so you can only do it once, if you buy new then you can sell the item on later, if you buy second hand then you have to keep it. This would mean bulk resells profiting from sales would be selling reduced value second hand digital games instead.

This would also stop the mass trading of 1p games to friends.

 

[Tombo]

I need to go away and digest that, hadn't looked at it from that point of view.

With steam you can do that now though, buy a game as a gift but don't send it / add it to your inventory and then sell it to someone and then gift them it.

At the end of the day for a game to be sold second hand it has to have been sold already therefore developers have had the sale already, developers seem to think that if people buy their game second hand its a lost sale but its simply not the case, When I have bought a second hand game in the past it is generally a game I would not have bought at retail price anyway. I welcome this whole heartedly its about time customers rights were put first.

This is the same argument used for piracy and and as far as the devevloper/publisher is concerned it's no worse. Unless you are forced to buy an online pass to play online which I'm not sure how this ruling will effect then it's no different to them.

 

[mmj_uk]

how come this can be done to steam but microsoft get away with stopping you reselling / or even re-using oem windows???!!!

They do not stop you from re-using OEM Windows, it's just scare tactics for those anal enough to care about the EULA even if it has no legal ground.

I don't see why this ruling won't apply to a Windows license being sold on.

 

[mmj_uk]

Does this apply to accounts and such too? Stuff like selling a World of Warcraft account or similar?

My understanding of it would be that you can sell the game/serial on but not the account. I guess Blizzard would have to implement a system where you can deactivate the serial from your account for it to be re-used on another.

I could be wrong though.

 

[Mr Krugga]

With steam you can do that now though, buy a game as a gift but don't send it / add it to your inventory and then sell it to someone and then gift them it.

Exactly this, plus the keys from grey markets.

It's never been that much of an issue, really.

 

[Amnesia]

Have just skim read the last page but i see this as a good thing, personally i would like to give away some of the games i bought on steam and never have any intention of playing or the ones i dont like, allowing me to gift them to other steam users.

I dont think it would hurt sales as bad as some people are saying, being able to sell the games on or gift them allows us to buy a lot more confidently knowing if we dont like it we can sell it or if its a short game then just play through it and sell it on.

personally i'd end up buying a lot more.

 

[Mr Krugga]

Have just skim read the last page but i see this as a good thing, personally i would like to give away some of the games i bought on steam and never have any intention of playing or the ones i dont like, allowing me to gift them to other steam users.

I dont think it would hurt sales as bad as some people are saying, being able to sell the games on or gift them allows us to buy a lot more confidently knowing if we dont like it we can sell it or if its a short game then just play through it and sell it on.

personally i'd end up buying a lot more.

I've got around 170 games on Steam at the moment, this will probably rise close to 200 this year.

I'd be very glad if I could sell or gift a half of them I don't play any more or don't intend to.

 

[MooMoo444]

Not sure how people are comparing 2nd hand digital game sales to real items.

In essence the games aren't even 2nd hand, they are in 'mint condition' still. No scratches, no scuffs, instruction manual still has that new smell.

Why pay full price from a publisher when you can just buy from someone on a forum for 30% of the price, and get the same thing?

 

[carlazai]

If that is how steam have worded the document then i guess the court will issue a further ruling down the line (but i might be retired by that point).

 

[Sleepery]

Why pay full price from a publisher when you can just buy from someone on a forum for 30% of the price, and get the same thing?

So think that through - nobody's going to do massive discount sales anymore, to stop people stockpiling games to sell at a profit later on. But you might be prepared to pay more for a game if you know you can get half back when you're finished, so you still buy the game. Maybe.

Thing is, Steam then have to allow you the bandwidth to download a game they haven't received any money from you for. So can they charge a handling fee on that basis, and if so will they feed any back to the developer?

Then there's the question of sites like g2play and CJS - they'll suddenly be able to register all those cheap grey market keys on steam themselves and just sell them to you via steam, that'll kill the second-hand market for ordinary users, and I can't see Steam being very happy about it.

In the end, I can see them stop selling games and switching to a monthly rental option or something just to avoid all the hassle.

 

[Mr Krugga]

So think that through - nobody's going to do massive discount sales anymore, to stop people stockpiling games to sell at a profit later on. But you might be prepared to pay more for a game if you know you can get half back when you're finished, so you still buy the game. Maybe.

That doesn't make any sense. If anything, 75% discounts will be out, but in exchange we will get lower initial prices, rewarding us in similar average prices over the year with the ability to sell the games we don't play any more. It will only encourage sales from publishers + extra DLC codes for those who buy new games. In effect, if you buy a used game, a small administration fee should be split between Valve and the publisher, if you like the game, you will support the developers further by purchasing the DLC.

Then there's the question of sites like g2play and CJS - they'll suddenly be able to register all those cheap grey market keys on steam themselves and just sell them to you via steam, that'll kill the second-hand market for ordinary users, and I can't see Steam being very happy about it.

I'm pretty sure unauthorised reselling is banned as it is, these sites should be prohibited from selling any keys legally.

Thing is, Steam then have to allow you the bandwidth to download a game they haven't received any money from you for. So can they charge a handling fee on that basis, and if so will they feed any back to the developer?

I bet I reinstall my games way more often than normal Steam users, and by transferring the license, I wouldn't be able to do it any more.

Best way would be to charge the administration fee for each resale, Steam doesn't lose anything on it (they've already sold the game once, now they're making money again by transferring the game from one account to another), part of the fee should go to the publisher (extra money, minus potential lost sales), but in the end, I think it's the big publishers that will suffer the most, since their games are often overpriced and not worth half the money spent on them.

To be fair, it's all fault of the big publishers shoving us £40-45 games on release with ridiculous amounts of laughable DLC that ramps the price of "complete" games up to artificially double their cost.


PS what is quite likely, like you have said already, that the Digital Download providers will change their T&Cs and we will now be renting out games for a 10 year period, which in effect doesn't change much since we can't be sure how long some of the services will be going for anyway...

 

[Gzero]

Read the rulings. This isn't applying specifically to a single company it's applying to all. The company in court was Oracle we are now speculating on the effect on digital game distribution.

I can't believe people are actually opposed to this, judging by the huge DRM hate threads. It's a huge victory for our consumer rights and will mean we actually own the games that we pay for.

People seem to think that this will kill PC gaming, how exactly? There is still huge money in it. Just look at consoles games, there is a huge 2nd hand market there and yet console games are still being made. PC game publishers will now have to adapt to the new conditions and stop gouging us at every new release. Maybe it will encourage them to actually release good, finished games in order to get people to buy them.

I agree with you, it's happening across multiple forums too. People crying about how this will break the pc market. "Say what?"

I've just given up on arguing with keyboard warriors since the ruling has been past what does their naive opinion matter compared to mine.

 

[Gzero]

PS what is quite likely, like you have said already, that the Digital Download providers will change their T&Cs and we will now be renting out games for a 10 year period, which in effect doesn't change much since we can't be sure how long some of the services will be going for anyway...

If they do that, people need only vote with their wallets. There was a time when making your own games was the thing to do...

 

[Sleepery]

Has it occurred to anyone else that they're sitting on a potential goldmine of unwanted steam games?

 

[mmj_uk]

Not sure how people are comparing 2nd hand digital game sales to real items.

In essence the games aren't even 2nd hand, they are in 'mint condition' still. No scratches, no scuffs, instruction manual still has that new smell.

Why pay full price from a publisher when you can just buy from someone on a forum for 30% of the price, and get the same thing?

Good quality games will not be flooding the second hand market and certainly not at 30% of the original price.

If anything it will make publishers think twice about releasing tat knowing the customer has to suck it up once purchased, perhaps we will see an increase in quality instead of the "rush it out of the door and patch it later" approach or the F1 2010 debacle where they just abandoned it and released a new version a year later

 

[bemaniac]

I reckon even at 30% my steam library is worth £3000 lol I've had it years and years and I buy almost anything! Still don't think I'd want to sell any of it for completions sake though.

 

[MooMoo444]

I reckon even at 30% my steam library is worth £3000 lol I've had it years and years and I buy almost anything! Still don't think I'd want to sell any of it for completions sake though.

You really have £10000 worth of games?..

 

[spoffle]

With steam you can do that now though, buy a game as a gift but don't send it / add it to your inventory and then sell it to someone and then gift them it.



This is the same argument used for piracy and and as far as the devevloper/publisher is concerned it's no worse. Unless you are forced to buy an online pass to play online which I'm not sure how this ruling will effect then it's no different to them.

But why pander to the developers? Surely they can think whatever they want, right? It shouldn't matter if their thoughts don't have a basis in reality. According to the devs, their games not selling well at all because they're **** is also the same as piracy.

I will always have a hard time getting my head around this second hand sale "issue". I really don't understand why games developers and publishers think they're so special that they shouldn't be subject to second hand sales outside of greed. There's no realistic reason why they should actually expect money from people selling their own stuff second hand other than greed.

99% of my games are bought new anyway, and I don't sell any of my games, but I still think it's ridiculous.

 

[Gimpymoo]

This is **** and those who are "championing" it, really have not thought it through.

The implications of this could be VERY bad indeed for gamers

 

[spoffle]

But why should the games industry be any different? Why aren't they subject to the same rules as everyone else? It's kind of like the way people only favour freedom of speech when they've said something others don't like. They're usually more than happy to complain about things other people have said when they also don't like it.