Exactly my point (Surnama was seemingly blaming JB for both)
European Grand Prix 2011, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 8/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Exactly my point (Surnama was seemingly blaming JB for both)
Looks like Martin Brundle also agrees with me in that Button was partly to blame for both incidents.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13754746.stm
vs Hamilton:
vs Alonso
Make of that what you will.
Caporegime
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- 18 Oct 2002
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JB's seemingly everyones friend in the paddock, everyones favourite(I really don't know why) and gets every decision for him with very few questioning him when he either has a bad race or does something very dodgey. Hamilton gets smacked off the track and everyones accusing him of being a maniac, I still think the Maldanado thing was a shockingly poor decision. Hamilton was just sideswiped, stupidly dangerously aswell and he gets a penalty.
IF Hamilton was the journeyman driver and not the hotshot people love to hate and JB was the young hotshot I can see almost all the decisions of late essentially being reversed.
Meh, we're all the same, like and dislike certain people. Button does my head in as someone who gets more luck than anyone else, does almost nothing and gets universal praise for, everyone around him falling to pieces. He's one of the most boring drivers the sport has ever had, and a completely undeserving champion.
Its the thing you hear on the radio, Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, Alonso are constantly being told "your tyres are hot", "slow down", "you can get the guy ahead" or the classic(to massa was it) "slow down and pass the guy infront"
With Button its always "don't worry, their tyres will go soon and you'll gain", its always an excuse and frankly, I can't remember the last race he had flat out race pace vs cars that were untroubled. IE Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton without them having a major issue.
Those three drivers have all put pressure on other guys, and won races while the guys infront have been in perfect condition. Honestly, had Button not fluked into the Brawn drive, he'd probably be in a Force India, or Lotus at the back of the grid still.
Anyway, its not just Hamilton, or Button, theres clearly lets say more well liked drivers who get away with a heck of a lot more when out on the track than others, and that is just another one of the many jokes running in F1 at the moment making it ultimately unfair and a bit rubbish.
IF Hamilton was the journeyman driver and not the hotshot people love to hate and JB was the young hotshot I can see almost all the decisions of late essentially being reversed.
Meh, we're all the same, like and dislike certain people. Button does my head in as someone who gets more luck than anyone else, does almost nothing and gets universal praise for, everyone around him falling to pieces. He's one of the most boring drivers the sport has ever had, and a completely undeserving champion.
Its the thing you hear on the radio, Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, Alonso are constantly being told "your tyres are hot", "slow down", "you can get the guy ahead" or the classic(to massa was it) "slow down and pass the guy infront"
With Button its always "don't worry, their tyres will go soon and you'll gain", its always an excuse and frankly, I can't remember the last race he had flat out race pace vs cars that were untroubled. IE Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton without them having a major issue.
Those three drivers have all put pressure on other guys, and won races while the guys infront have been in perfect condition. Honestly, had Button not fluked into the Brawn drive, he'd probably be in a Force India, or Lotus at the back of the grid still.
Anyway, its not just Hamilton, or Button, theres clearly lets say more well liked drivers who get away with a heck of a lot more when out on the track than others, and that is just another one of the many jokes running in F1 at the moment making it ultimately unfair and a bit rubbish.
Soldato
*sigh*
All champions are deserving, drunkenmaster. Whether you like him or not, Button did a better job than anyone else in '09 and fully deserved that title.
So he had the good fortune to be in a car that was quick, at a time when McLaren and Ferrari had pressed the self-destruct button and RBR weren't quite up to all-conquering speed just yet. So what? Half of everything is luck, and he made his own in this case by sticking by Honda through that lean couple of years.
If you say Button isn't deserving of his title simply because he was lucky enough that the Brawn deal came together, then you might as well say that every driver who ever won a title in the best car or had one of their main rivals knocked out of contention due to injury doesn't deserve their title(s). And that would include more than a few of the 32 drivers who have ever won it.
JB's seemingly everyones friend in the paddock, everyones favourite(I really don't know why) and gets every decision for him with very few questioning him when he either has a bad race or does something very dodgey. Hamilton gets smacked off the track and everyones accusing him of being a maniac, I still think the Maldanado thing was a shockingly poor decision. Hamilton was just sideswiped, stupidly dangerously aswell and he gets a penalty.
IF Hamilton was the journeyman driver and not the hotshot people love to hate and JB was the young hotshot I can see almost all the decisions of late essentially being reversed.
Meh, we're all the same, like and dislike certain people. Button does my head in as someone who gets more luck than anyone else, does almost nothing and gets universal praise for, everyone around him falling to pieces. He's one of the most boring drivers the sport has ever had, and a completely undeserving champion.
Its the thing you hear on the radio, Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, Alonso are constantly being told "your tyres are hot", "slow down", "you can get the guy ahead" or the classic(to massa was it) "slow down and pass the guy infront"
With Button its always "don't worry, their tyres will go soon and you'll gain", its always an excuse and frankly, I can't remember the last race he had flat out race pace vs cars that were untroubled. IE Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton without them having a major issue.
Those three drivers have all put pressure on other guys, and won races while the guys infront have been in perfect condition. Honestly, had Button not fluked into the Brawn drive, he'd probably be in a Force India, or Lotus at the back of the grid still.
Anyway, its not just Hamilton, or Button, theres clearly lets say more well liked drivers who get away with a heck of a lot more when out on the track than others, and that is just another one of the many jokes running in F1 at the moment making it ultimately unfair and a bit rubbish.
Just, wow. Where do I begin
drunkenmaster, ha, so your issue with Button is he makes it look easy? He gets results without all the fuss and drama associated with the others.
Also, don't forget in 2004 Button was a strong third (10 podiums) behind the Ferrari's which won all but 3 races and ahead of Alonso's Renault.
Also, don't forget in 2004 Button was a strong third (10 podiums) behind the Ferrari's which won all but 3 races and ahead of Alonso's Renault.
Lulz, Haters gonna Hate
I'm sure I've read that post before. Is it a copy and paste from a previous thread?
A lot of Button loving going on in here.
Its ok to bash Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton (who IMO are the 3 best drivers currently in F1), but not ok to bash Button?
For me, Button is a good driver. There's no 2 ways about it. He isn't quite on par with Hamilton but then only Alonso has shown (in 2007), that he was. So far, Hamilton could argue that he is unbeaten (on points in a single season) by any team-mate in F1. I believe that Vettel and Alonso are the only 2 drivers who can say the same. (Perhaps someone could look this up).
Based on the last 1.5 seasons, Button is unquestionably the best driver in wet weather. But in the dry, the 3 drivers mentioned at the top of my post, move ahead of him and pull away.
I do agree with Drunkenmaster in that Hamilton is the guy who cops it every time he is involved in a crash. I think the treatment is unfair, but if you are going to carry the mantle of being the best driver in F1 (which he feels, he is), then this is something you must learn to put up with and adapt to.
When Senna was on top, he also had a lot of run-ins with the (F1) authorities and in particular the FI(S)A president at the time. But he just kept doing what he did and dealt with the consequences later. I believe this is exactly what Hamilton is doing, which is why he is not altering his attacking driving style.
Now, on the subject of this season: I'm actually thinking that the FIA should ban RBR for a race or 2, just to bunch up the pack a little. They need to find a reason...any reason...make up one if need be. For non-Vettel/RBR fans, watching Vettel get 8 x top 2 places from 8 races is no fun.
So come on FIA, think of a reason...any reason...and hit RBR with the ban-hammer...I am confident you can do this.
Its ok to bash Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton (who IMO are the 3 best drivers currently in F1), but not ok to bash Button?
For me, Button is a good driver. There's no 2 ways about it. He isn't quite on par with Hamilton but then only Alonso has shown (in 2007), that he was. So far, Hamilton could argue that he is unbeaten (on points in a single season) by any team-mate in F1. I believe that Vettel and Alonso are the only 2 drivers who can say the same. (Perhaps someone could look this up).
Based on the last 1.5 seasons, Button is unquestionably the best driver in wet weather. But in the dry, the 3 drivers mentioned at the top of my post, move ahead of him and pull away.
I do agree with Drunkenmaster in that Hamilton is the guy who cops it every time he is involved in a crash. I think the treatment is unfair, but if you are going to carry the mantle of being the best driver in F1 (which he feels, he is), then this is something you must learn to put up with and adapt to.
When Senna was on top, he also had a lot of run-ins with the (F1) authorities and in particular the FI(S)A president at the time. But he just kept doing what he did and dealt with the consequences later. I believe this is exactly what Hamilton is doing, which is why he is not altering his attacking driving style.
Now, on the subject of this season: I'm actually thinking that the FIA should ban RBR for a race or 2, just to bunch up the pack a little. They need to find a reason...any reason...make up one if need be. For non-Vettel/RBR fans, watching Vettel get 8 x top 2 places from 8 races is no fun.
So come on FIA, think of a reason...any reason...and hit RBR with the ban-hammer...I am confident you can do this.
Of course you can 'bash' any driver, but it seemed a random rant with a driver he 'has issues with' rather than for any real reason imo
A lot of Button loving going on in here.
Its ok to bash Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton (who IMO are the 3 best drivers currently in F1), but not ok to bash Button?
For me, Button is a good driver. There's no 2 ways about it. He isn't quite on par with Hamilton but then only Alonso has shown (in 2007), that he was. So far, Hamilton could argue that he is unbeaten (on points in a single season) by any team-mate in F1. I believe that Vettel and Alonso are the only 2 drivers who can say the same. (Perhaps someone could look this up).
Based on the last 1.5 seasons, Button is unquestionably the best driver in wet weather. But in the dry, the 3 drivers mentioned at the top of my post, move ahead of him and pull away.
I do agree with Drunkenmaster in that Hamilton is the guy who cops it every time he is involved in a crash. I think the treatment is unfair, but if you are going to carry the mantle of being the best driver in F1 (which he feels, he is), then this is something you must learn to put up with and adapt to.
When Senna was on top, he also had a lot of run-ins with the (F1) authorities and in particular the FI(S)A president at the time. But he just kept doing what he did and dealt with the consequences later. I believe this is exactly what Hamilton is doing, which is why he is not altering his attacking driving style.
Now, on the subject of this season: I'm actually thinking that the FIA should ban RBR for a race or 2, just to bunch up the pack a little. They need to find a reason...any reason...make up one if need be. For non-Vettel/RBR fans, watching Vettel get 8 x top 2 places from 8 races is no fun.
So come on FIA, think of a reason...any reason...and hit RBR with the ban-hammer...I am confident you can do this.
With you on this one.
Soldato
Ah, the 8th Deadly Sin....
Can I get this one on record please? It is okay to bash The Daddy™, The Finger™, and The Messiah™. But not The Fromey™. That about right?
Good heavens!
That's a bit of a change from this:
2 years on
Winning a World Championship.
Winning many races.
Moving to McLaren to go head to head against Hamilton.
Not getting demolished by Hamilton (this was the big one).
How could I not reassess my opinion of Button?
Sportsmen/drivers/people change.
I remember when Agassi entered Tennis in the early 90's. He was nothing but a playboy. I had no respect for the guy. When he returned after injury, the head was shaved, gone was the playboy image and stories in newspapers about his sexual exploits. What I was now seeing was one of the hardest/toughest/determined competitors, of any sport, that I have seen in my life. Agassi had become like a relentless machine, especially when he was playing Sampras. I implore you to watch the 2000 Australian Tennis Semi Final - Sampras Vs Agassi. Agassi wins against Sampras who is making some unbelievable shots. Agassi just didnt know when to give up. Having started as a playboy, Agassi finished his career with plenty of accolades/titles and is ranked as one of the all-time greats.
People (and that includes sportsmen) can change and sports fans can change their opinions.
Hamilton seems to always put himself in a position where there's either going to be an accident or the other driver is going to have to bottle it and move out of the way or he doesn't know he's there as it's an unusual place to overtake. You don't get into F1 by being a driver who meekly lets people behind through. SO they often come together and because it was hamilton that made the move, he gets clocked with the blame and the 'causing an avoidable accident' stick from the Stewards.
Vettel is making it look easy because the car he has is the class of the field and his teammate is struggling to make the Prielli's work. IMO once you get the Red Bull on par with other cars and then it's all down to the driver then I don't think he'll be all that. Last year the few races where he wasn't on the front row he struggled to make an impact. yes he's fast, but I don't rate him as a 'racing' driver as i've yet to see him come through the field from, say, 6th or worse purely through driving the wheels off the RB and get onto the podium.
As much as I hate Alonso (Petulant, childish whinging Spanaird that he is) he's a bloody good driver, and Ferrari suits him down to the ground because they've always had a clear no. 1 and no. 2 policy which he exploits ruthlessly and which also makes me think he'd try everything in his power to stop someone who he sees as an equal joining Ferrari. If anything I suspect he'll be telling the Ferrari brass that massa is doing a fine job and shouldn't be sacked!
Vettel is making it look easy because the car he has is the class of the field and his teammate is struggling to make the Prielli's work. IMO once you get the Red Bull on par with other cars and then it's all down to the driver then I don't think he'll be all that. Last year the few races where he wasn't on the front row he struggled to make an impact. yes he's fast, but I don't rate him as a 'racing' driver as i've yet to see him come through the field from, say, 6th or worse purely through driving the wheels off the RB and get onto the podium.
As much as I hate Alonso (Petulant, childish whinging Spanaird that he is) he's a bloody good driver, and Ferrari suits him down to the ground because they've always had a clear no. 1 and no. 2 policy which he exploits ruthlessly and which also makes me think he'd try everything in his power to stop someone who he sees as an equal joining Ferrari. If anything I suspect he'll be telling the Ferrari brass that massa is doing a fine job and shouldn't be sacked!
Ideally he would prefer a Nr2 who's actually capable of holding back the opposition though, which Massa doesn't seem capable of doing.
That's a possibility, but then if that person actually starts threatening tot ake points off Alonso I'm sure Fernando would have no problems with 'Tell him I'm faster than him', but if it happened a lot then I'm sure the general public wouldn't like it.
If it happened a lot, Ferrari would probably read Alonso the riot act and if he didnt improve and show he was top dog, they'd more than likely fire him...just like they got rid of Kimi, who was beginning to get dominated by Massa.
Remember, Ferrari's policy is to hire the best driver in F1 and make him their No.1 driver.
In return, the No.1 driver must deliver the goods. If he doesnt, he will be shown the door.
Alonso is the their best driver, by a good margin and it amazes me that some people think that Alonso does not deserve the No.1 tag at Ferrari.
While Alonso is regarded by many (and more importantly by Ferrari), whoever drives alongside him, will have to play second fiddle. This is the best strategy if you want to win titles. MSc, Alonso and now Vettel have used this strategy to ruthless effect.
Soldato
sunama said:
There you have it, RB emplyee wants RB penalised. They have to do it now.
Soldato
There you have it, RB emplyee wants RB penalised. They have to do it now.
I saw that at the time and was like..
but then So I said nothing in the hope it happens
Associate
I saw that at the time and was like..
So I said nothing in the hope it happens
rather odd comment by the nuts.