I'm fairly indifferent over the ECU/EBD ban. The wing mirror ban last year was done due to safety concerns as they gave poor visibility and vibrated a lot which caused a few incidents, also iirc RBR were not the only team affected. None of the teams including RBR really kicked up a fuss about it either iirc, don't think the aero gains from it were significant.
European Grand Prix 2011, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 8/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
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I'm fairly indifferent over the ECU/EBD ban. The wing mirror ban last year was done due to safety concerns as they gave poor visibility and vibrated a lot which caused a few incidents, also iirc RBR were not the only team affected. None of the teams including RBR really kicked up a fuss about it either iirc, don't think the aero gains from it were significant.
The safety reason was the reason the FIA gave for banning them. It wasn't the reason they were out there in the first place (that was for the aero advantage. Or rather, the minimal aero disadvantage).
But the simple fact is it was a mid season rule change that affected a large number of teams. Exactly the same as this one. The only difference being it wasn't incorrectly perceived (and incorrectly reported by the media I might add) as being some sort of plan to slow down a single team.
you don't see a problem with changing rules half way through a season
,as I said this is nit a clarification, there was a written in exclusion to engine maps.Add to that the inconsistency, they allow DD and f-duct which where specifically included. Yet something which is so actually included and written into the rules they ban it.
you dontsee a problem with changing rules half way through a season
When the cost/effort of implementing this change is minimal, no, i don't see a problem at all. Are the FIA not allowed to plug holes in their rules that the teams start exploiting?
you don't see a problem with changing rules half way through a season
Add to that the inconsistency, they allow DD and f-duct which where specifically included. Yet something which is so actually included and written into the rules they ban it.
As I have already said, banning F Ducts and DD's mid season would mean complete redesigns of cars an re-homologation of chassis. Banning them mid season would have effectively banned allt he teams using them for a number of races (or those with little budget, the whole remainder of the season).
The ECU/EBD rule change has little to no cost impact or lead time. It can therefore be banned immediately, so why wouldn't they?
Shouldn't be. it's also not a hole. It is EXPLECITLY written into the rules.
Banning f-duct means no such thing. It just need the hole blocking up.
Banning OTBD may also need major redesigns as it will unbalance the cars.
Your question should be why ban it? What are they achieving by it. It's not safety, it's not against the rules. They are panicking again about the championship and I expect to fail.
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Ok, so if the FIA aren't allowed to develop the rules, the teams shouldn't be allowed to develop the cars. If the regulations have to remain fixed at how they are before the season starts, then the cars must to do to?
Soldato
I see little difference between banning the DD and the EBD; removing either without redesigning the diffuser, floor, rear and front wings would likely have a severe impact on car balance, since you're taking a large chunk of downforce away from one specific area and not the whole car.
What rubbish are tpyou talking, really take another read of that and have a think. How does one follow the other.
If it's a grey area fia can make a design. If it is allowed in the rules fia should take. No action. Especially as 11 teams have it I implemented.
But they aren't banning the EBD mid season, they are only banning the off throttle engine maps. These have come along a lot later than the EBD's themselves. The EBD ban is only being implemented at the end of the season as this is a physical redesign of the car.
All that is being banned as of Silverstone is code. And all thats been banned ad of this weekend is the ability to change code between qualifying and the race.
All that is being banned as of Silverstone is code. And all thats been banned ad of this weekend is the ability to change code between qualifying and the race.
oTBD will unbalance the cars, how much remains to be seen. As the downforce is generated at the rear. The one less effected should be Renault due to their forward exhausts.
Again why ban q maps? Its allowed in the rules to change engine maps. What is the reason?
Why do it? On what grounds?
Again why ban q maps? Its allowed in the rules to change engine maps. What is the reason?
Why do it? On what grounds?
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The FIA make the rules, the FIA can change them as and when they see fit.
As you yourself have said, it affects almost all the teams. If its a rule change that costs nothing to implement, takes no effort from the teams to implement, and affects everybody, what's the problem? The teams have developed something to give them an advantage. The FIA don't like it, so have 'developed' the rules to stop it.
F1 teams compete in F1 knowing who the regulators are, and that they must meet those regulations or not be allowed to race. They don't compete expecting to be able to tell the FIA what the rules are to fit their own desires.
Costs n money?
There will be a lot of reworking in the coming races for both q-maps and OTBd and new aero for it.
And no fia should not make rules up halfway through the season. They should make up rules in advance and where needed clarify grey areas.
You still advent given one reason why it should be banned? Other than fia trying to influence championship.
There will be a lot of reworking in the coming races for both q-maps and OTBd and new aero for it.
And no fia should not make rules up halfway through the season. They should make up rules in advance and where needed clarify grey areas.
You still advent given one reason why it should be banned? Other than fia trying to influence championship.
Presumably because the FIA have decided that enough significant changes are being made for them to want to revoke this rule.
The reasons haven't been clearly spelled out, but at the end of the day, its the FIA's rules, they can change them if they want. I'm no fan of the FIA usually, but I do at least respect that they are the regulators, not the teams, not FOM, and definitely not the OcUK Motorsport Sub Forum.
They are clarifying this area. I assume when they wrote this rule in they werent expecting this to be how it was used.
Influence the championship? But you yourself just said that this affects 11 of the 12 teams! Come on AH2, sort your argument out. Are you now saying this is just aimed solely at RBR?
They didn't expect DD or F-duct which where even lessen in the rules and realised. They didn't contravene any rules and allowed them for the season. Yet something which is in the rules is banned.it is nit a clarification. It is a u turn on an explicit rule.
Ok, so they should be allowed to clarify, but not change rules? Who is going to decide what is what? What if there is something that isn't specifically regulated against? They would have to write a new rule, but they cant because you wouldn't allow them. What if they accidentally left something in? Would they be allowed to remove it then? What if a part of the car design was found to be dangerous and needed changing? Are they allowed to change rules on safety grounds, but not on 'affecting the championship' grounds? What if only a couple of teams used this dangerous part?
Basically, you cannot allow 'a degree' of regulation changes throughout a season. They are either not allowed, whereby nothing can change, or they are allowed, whereby everything from a minor spelling mistake to a complete rewrite are allowed.
And I still stand by the fact that if the regulations cant change, the cars cant either. What if someone develops a new part that the FIA have never seen before, and there is no rule for it. The FIA can't say wether its legal or not legal, and aren't allowed to write a rule to define if it is or isnt. The only way to stop that would be to prevent any changes to any cars after the start of the season.
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A grey area is g that might contravene the rules. Like the investigation into double diffuser. Which was deemed legal.
Q-maps is not a grey area, it's is explicitly written into the rules that they can reprogram up engine maps in park ferme.
What's so hard to understand between a total change of rules and clarifying something which may be in breech.
And yet again another silly argument. It doesn't have to be black and White. Just another. Throw away comment like if fia can't change rules, teams can't develop cars, what logic does that follow, how are they even related.
Q-maps is not a grey area, it's is explicitly written into the rules that they can reprogram up engine maps in park ferme.
What's so hard to understand between a total change of rules and clarifying something which may be in breech.
And yet again another silly argument. It doesn't have to be black and White. Just another. Throw away comment like if fia can't change rules, teams can't develop cars, what logic does that follow, how are they even related.