Poll: European Grand Prix 2017, Baku - Race 8/20

[Dup]

Am I the only one that thinks Vettel didn't mean to hit Hamilton?

Vettel avoided saying it wasn't deliberate in his interview. He could easily have said it was an accident but he didn't. They can race flat out wheel-to-wheel and not make that kind of contact. Hamilton can do over 200mph with one hand on the wheel. Vettel had a lot of space to correct his angle... but he didn't, becasue it was almost certainly deliberate.

Vettel wants and needs to beat Hamilton, as nobody regards him as much Hamilton is regarded and even the likes of Alonso are named as better drivers. Vettel has a chip on his shoulder and has spent the last few seasons blowing up mid race on the radio when it doesn't go his way.

I'm no Lewis fan (JB all the way) but he has a much cooler head these days and that's really admirable. He's also showing some foresight with his comments RE: Bottas to slow down. Worth a try and a big ask, but it shows signs of a more intelligent driver that we have seen of him in the past. The way he controlled those re-starts was great too. Vettel knew he was gonna lose out again on the re-start and was trying to keep as close as possible, made a mistake and decided to throw his toys out the pram and Hamilton just got on with it without a fuss. Respect where it's due there IMO. But it's entertaining having an angry German back in F1 so it's all good in my book.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I really don't understand everyone calling for Vettel to be disqualified. I can only recall two drivers being given a DQ/ban for causing any kind of collision in semi-recent times and that was Irvine for Interlagos 1994 and Grosjean for the Spa pile-up. Even though they weren't deliberate, anyone expecting Vettel to be black flagged for a 25mph clash is deluded judging by past incidents (see Maldonado).

What Vettel did in retaliation was childish and frankly stupid, but it was never deserving of an on-the-spot black flag, especially now with the more relaxed punishments.

A 30 second penalty and points on his license (now 3 away from a ban in a 12 month period, but he loses 2 of those points after Silverstone) were quite sufficient punishments in my opinion.

The collision was at over 50kph, not 25mph, and the speed going forward is absolutely and entirely irrelevant. First off deliberately hitting a car isn't better if it's low speed and secondly there was more force in that impact that in two cars rubbing tires at 300kph down a straight. Vettel moved almost a yard away then turned right into Hamilton and moved across quickly. He hit him so hard that both of Vettel's front tires came off the ground at the same time. Can you even remember that happening at 300kph? When it happens down a straight the cars will be 2-3 inches apart and move across and rub slowly, the 300kph is irrelevant, it's the speed with which they move sideways into each other. Neither turn into each other they both drift sideways extremely slowly and tap each other. vettel jerked the wheel sideways moving significantly faster and generating significantly more force of impact than the massive majority of side impacts from wheel touching that occur in F1.

Anyway, deliberated contact is and always should be a black flag offence, because if you can deliberately hit someone at a lower speed then why can't you deliberately do it at higher speed, it sets the precedent that deliberate contact isn't always wrong, thus if you do it deliberately at high speed but it doesn't cause damage then maybe that is okay too? It either is or isn't wrong all the time regardless of speed and regardless of circumstance.

Personally he should also be punished for hitting him from behind, under safety car not judging the speed of the guy ahead of you and crashing into them. He's stated he accelerated than braked hard, thus brake checking him. He clearly didn't accelerate and he scrubbed off a little speed as he took the corner which is simply how it works with cars. Only if a driver is accelerating or braking erratically is it ever a problem and he certainly did neither, he slowed mostly into the corner in a braking zone and lost 3-4kph from apex to the contact. There is zero excuse for hitting someone in that situation under a safety car, none at all.

 

[gord]

Am I the only one that thinks Vettel didn't mean to hit Hamilton?

I'm not entirely sure. Have we had telemetry confirmation that Vettel turned his steering wheel into Hamilton? The reason I ask is that I thought it weird how Vettel's hands go up in protest immediately as he pulls alongside and the car turns into Lewis at that time. It looked like torque steer for a moment.

Not that it's really any excuse. He shouldn't have even been driving alongside the lead car to remonstrate. The fact that Lewis' telemetry shows he did nothing wrong makes Vettel's actions even worse, a case of pure rage.

 

[pacegod]

A 4 time world champion did not hit Hamilton's car by accident.

Also Vettel still had one hand on the wheel. It was intentional.

 

[ALD]

I seem to remember Vettel rear ending Weber under the safety car when he was a Toro Rosso driver and trying to blame Hamilton for it.

 

[Greboth]

I'm not entirely sure. Have we had telemetry confirmation that Vettel turned his steering wheel into Hamilton? The reason I ask is that I thought it weird how Vettel's hands go up in protest immediately as he pulls alongside and the car turns into Lewis at that time. It looked like torque steer for a moment.

Not that it's really any excuse. He shouldn't have even been driving alongside the lead car to remonstrate. The fact that Lewis' telemetry shows he did nothing wrong makes Vettel's actions even worse, a case of pure rage.

I'm not sure if you don't know what torque steer is or you mean something else. You wouldn't get torque steer in F1 cars though it would be possible (especially with the torque these engines have) to spin up the rears to turn the car. However I can't see this being the case at such low speeds especially when Vettel had done the accelerating so once along side would only be on throttle enough to keep pace with Hamilton.

Vettel should have got a much harsher penalty though, drivers have had worst penalties for mistakes / avoidable collisions. Deliberately causing a collision, irrespective of speed or damage done etc., should face one of the (if not THE) harshest penalty available.

 

[The_Abyss]

What a cracking race, both for the racing and the incident. Stroll was fantastic and kept a cool head - so unlucky to just miss out on second place at the end. All the drama in the pit lane - absolutely brilliant.

The first time I saw Vettel hit Hamilton, watching live, I was sure the Hamilton had braked. But then watching again a few more times and different views, I think he pretty much just held his speed, maybe slowing under engine braking. Vettel just misjudged him and expected him to accelerate away and went in to the back. What happened next... I'd have dusted off the black flag, pulled Vettel off the circuit and told him to report to Charlie Whiting and the stewards. Shocking behaviour imo. We all slated Maldonado when he did it and Vettel should be treated no differently.

If there wasn't already enough spice in the WDC there certainly is now!

 

[fez]

Is that the last we are hearing about the Vettel incident or is there more punishment to come?

 

[mmj_uk]

Probably the last of it, they seem to be more interested in using it for advertising purposes so I doubt they're going to give Vettel any sort of ban.

 

[The_Abyss]

Yeah, I'd think it is over now. I can't imagine that Ferrari are best pleased though - not a great image for the brand, both the incident and Vettel's selective memory afterwards.

 

[Steampunk]

Yeah, I'd think it is over now. I can't imagine that Ferrari are best pleased though - not a great image for the brand, both the incident and Vettel's selective memory afterwards.

In my mind, it tarnishes Vettel, Ferrari, and F1 as a whole. The fact that the FIA elected to give him a light and ineffectual slap-on-the-wrist punishment just makes it all worse. At least if they'd black-flagged Vettel for his actions, they would have shown that such behaviour is unacceptable. By not doing so, they've basically condoned what he did. In the title run? Then it's okay to act like a childish, unprofessional animal on the track.

 

[Bubo]

What would have happened if Ocon, I think it was Ocon, has driven up to fill the space behind Hamilton once Vettel had vacated it to do his side shunt manoeuvre? Would Vettel have had to stay there out of the slip stream once Hamilton had set off for real? Or would Ocon have been obliged to yield the space behind there and then?

 

[GhostWKD]

In my mind, it tarnishes Vettel, Ferrari, and F1 as a whole. The fact that the FIA elected to give him a light and ineffectual slap-on-the-wrist punishment just makes it all worse. At least if they'd black-flagged Vettel for his actions, they would have shown that such behaviour is unacceptable. By not doing so, they've basically condoned what he did. In the title run? Then it's okay to act like a childish, unprofessional animal on the track.

Kind of what I was thinking to be fair, it's a dangerous precedent to set if deliberate contact doesn't get a very harsh penalty. Iirc Riccardo rubbed tyres with Vettel on purpose in China too to 'create a show' or similar. Tough line to draw though as the processional races just aren't fun to watch and the close tight racing is obviously exciting to watch.

 

[Greboth]

What would have happened if Ocon, I think it was Ocon, has driven up to fill the space behind Hamilton once Vettel had vacated it to do his side shunt manoeuvre? Would Vettel have had to stay there out of the slip stream once Hamilton had set off for real? Or would Ocon have been obliged to yield the space behind there and then?

As far as I know there isn't anything that says they have to follow in a line so Ocon could have done that. I suppose the only danger in doing something like this would be, in the tow of Hamilton, it could be easy to pass Vettel before the SC line.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Is that the last we are hearing about the Vettel incident or is there more punishment to come?

im hoping for more punishment

 

[Dup]

im hoping for more punishment

Are any teams or drivers appealing for greater punishment? Without someone bringing it up I can't see anything more coming from it.

I would love to see the drivers briefing next time out though.

 

[gord]

I'm not sure if you don't know what torque steer is or you mean something else. You wouldn't get torque steer in F1 cars though it would be possible (especially with the torque these engines have) to spin up the rears to turn the car. However I can't see this being the case at such low speeds especially when Vettel had done the accelerating so once along side would only be on throttle enough to keep pace with Hamilton.

Sorry yeh, didn't really mean torque steer but more the result of his aggressive acceleration up beside him and then letting go of the wheel to remonstrate, but not actually directing the car purposefully. But if he's got one hand on the wheel at all times then it's pretty clear cut.

 

[The_Abyss]

"Please remember that, under safety car conditions, you should avoid:

1 - driving into the rear of the car in front
2 - pulling alongside the car in front
3 - pulling alongside the car in front and driving into the car alongside

Any questions? Seb, let's start with you"

 

[pacegod]

Thing is, Seb is one of the GPDA directors along with Grosjean. Seb should really know better.

I bet Ferrari thinks Sebs punishment was harsh, they are truly blinkered to the real world.

The FIA should have waited until after the race, then issued the penalty, but oddly they did it just when they informed Hamilton he had to pit to fix his headrest.

 

[mmj_uk]

What would have happened if Ocon, I think it was Ocon, has driven up to fill the space behind Hamilton once Vettel had vacated it to do his side shunt manoeuvre? Would Vettel have had to stay there out of the slip stream once Hamilton had set off for real? Or would Ocon have been obliged to yield the space behind there and then?

I said at the time but if you look closely Vettel appears to overtake Hamilton during the side on collision even if it's only by several inches, he was never even investigated for that? the thing is under safety car if the car in front slows down or maintains a steady pace the car behind has to do the same to avoid overtaking them, so Ocon would have been obliged to give Vettel some room. Vettel should know all that but he apparently forgot safety car procedure yesterday. It's the following drivers responsiblity not to pass the car in front.