Caporegime
Has any data been shown related to how Vettel moved towards Hamilton as he pulled alongside him? I assume they have all this information.
Poll: European Grand Prix 2017, Baku - Race 8/20
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Dream on.
He pulled alongside, then raised his left hand, then turned into Hamilton. These were three clearly separate events. The only way he could turn into Lewis was by pulling down on the wheel with his right hand and there's no way that was accidental.
"Move up inside the car". What are you on about?! They're strapped in so tight they can't move.
You know if he had have dnfed Hamiltons car he would have been disqualified.
It is a farcical that's for sure.
That's one of the reasons I now treat it as entertainment. It's just a very expensive trash TV show.
I don't watch any of the build up or post race stuff because it doesn't matter.
They change rules to close it up
Add arbitrary DRS zones,
control the power/time of ERS deployment
Ban technologies to even the field
Don't/do give penalties depending on importance to championship
Throw safety cars/not depending on race
As long as you accept this it's OK, it makes for better entertainment. It's not fair.
For example, in this race the safety cars made it really exciting. Whether they were needed or not. A VSC is borning.
At the current level fans will moan but not enough to switch off it seems.. It's not to brash or full on obvious. So they are probably doing it just right as it's better than runaway races/championships
Overall its come to a point where I'd rather a controversial/farcical race than a dull fair one
It is a farcical that's for sure.
That's one of the reasons I now treat it as entertainment. It's just a very expensive trash TV show.
I don't watch any of the build up or post race stuff because it doesn't matter.
They change rules to close it up
Add arbitrary DRS zones,
control the power/time of ERS deployment
Ban technologies to even the field
Don't/do give penalties depending on importance to championship
Throw safety cars/not depending on race
As long as you accept this it's OK, it makes for better entertainment. It's not fair.
For example, in this race the safety cars made it really exciting. Whether they were needed or not. A VSC is borning.
At the current level fans will moan but not enough to switch off it seems.. It's not to brash or full on obvious. So they are probably doing it just right as it's better than runaway races/championships
Overall its come to a point where I'd rather a controversial/farcical race than a dull fair one
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My interest in F1 has been waning over the last couple of years. I record the races, but I usually find out the results, and then don't bother to watch them (highlights only on free-to-air for half the races don't help). Last year I watched half of the races, this year Baku was the first one I was able to watch live. However, this whole thing has left a sour taste and put me off F1 significantly. When this sort of **** happens, for the world to see, with telemetry up the wazoo, and the offender escapes any meaningful punishment, I'm left wondering why I bother. It's like bad referee decisions at every football match. It might as well be Mexican wrestling, at least that makes no effort to hide the fact that it's entertainment rather than sport, and the results are part of the pantomime. F1 is supposed to be one the technical pinnacles of sport, and they can't even get something as obviously wrong as this sorted. It's sad and pathetic, and I'm wondering why it's worthy of my time.
Soldato
Any more info come to light as to how Hamilton's head device wasn't seated properly (did it come loose, or was it never fitted properly at the post-reg flag restart)?
I still find it bizarre that the stewards took so long to issue the 10 second stop 'n' go penalty to Vettel, having all that reg flag time to deliberate and issue, plus several laps after the restart. If the penalty had been issued during the reg flag period, Vettel would have had to serve the penalty within three laps of crossing the start/finish line after the restart and would consequently have rejoined further back in midfield. Because they issued it only after Hamilton was told he had to come in to secure the head device, the field had spread further apart and enabled him to serve the penalty and stay ahead of Hamilton when he rejoined the track.
Disgraceful behaviour by Vettel, diabolical handling by the FIA and stewards.
I still find it bizarre that the stewards took so long to issue the 10 second stop 'n' go penalty to Vettel, having all that reg flag time to deliberate and issue, plus several laps after the restart. If the penalty had been issued during the reg flag period, Vettel would have had to serve the penalty within three laps of crossing the start/finish line after the restart and would consequently have rejoined further back in midfield. Because they issued it only after Hamilton was told he had to come in to secure the head device, the field had spread further apart and enabled him to serve the penalty and stay ahead of Hamilton when he rejoined the track.
Disgraceful behaviour by Vettel, diabolical handling by the FIA and stewards.
This is what makes it even worse, it just seems like they waited until Hamilton had to come in and then get held up in traffic. The penalty was gifted to Seb at the exact right time....had they acted faster and either sent him to the back on the restart or given him the 10 second stop and go as soon as they restarted, Seb would have been the one held up in traffic for longer (in fact if he had it just after the restart, he likely would have ended up at the back). They literally waited until he had a nice run of clean air to make sure he came out in front of Hamilton/in a decent position.
The whole thing is absolutely bent.
So true. Was almost funny how they waited for that point. Probably knowing it would keep them close in the race
Soldato
Yeah it's a worrying sign for liberty and f1 and I it was a deliberately bad decision viewers will see through it. It also indicates the money men are getting desperate, maybe the realise they've been sold a pup by the ultimate salesman.
Soldato
He moves as much as he can in the car to gesticulate to Hamilton. At the same time he turns the wheel.
Personally, I don't think he meant to collide with Hamilton.
Soldato
He maybe not have intended it, I still find that hard to believe.
While it's possible to perhaps understand why he reacted, it's impossible to defend his actions thereafter. I still believe the penalty was just though. I'm with Brundle - if Hamilton had been knocked out then fair enough, a DQ might have been warranted, but for a crash "at walk pace" (as Brundle put it) that had zero chance of any lasting effect, the 30 second penalty and points on license was sufficient.
Absolutely not. There should be zero tolerance for Vettel's behaviour. He should have been disqualified from the race. It shouldn't matter at all whether you are in the championship hunt or whether you damage an opponents car enough to take them out of the race. If you lose your cool and attack someone deliberately in any other sport (well sport that doesn't involve fighting anyway) you get sent off/disqualified (in F1's case you cant really attack someone but you can use your car to deliberately attack another drivers car which amounts to the same thing).
Soldato
I thought that but Vettel's complete denial that it ever happened/dodging the question after the race has made me think that it was a heat of the moment thing that he regrets and he knows he got off lightly .
Did Schumacher receive any additional penalties in Jerez after he ran into the side of Villeneurveevvee?
EDIT: Stripped of his 2nd place finish in the championship. Quite a jump from a 10sec stop/go but slightly different circumstances I guess.
Associate
Good point I heard on the radio today. What would have happened if vettel had cracked Hamiltons wish bone or something and then at 220mph it broke he would have been killed this is why the penalty isn't enough.
You can't move at all without undoing your harness. If you could it'd defeat the entire object of it.
Of course he meant to, the red mist came down just like it always does with Vettel. He's unhinged.
I voted 7.
I enjoyed watching the racing.
Cars looked a handful on cold tires.
But I couldn't shift the suspicion that lots of the decisions made by the FIA gave the impression they could be manipulating things.....
If that continues I will stop watching.
I enjoyed watching the racing.
Cars looked a handful on cold tires.
But I couldn't shift the suspicion that lots of the decisions made by the FIA gave the impression they could be manipulating things.....
If that continues I will stop watching.
Soldato
I imagine that Ferrari had quite a lot to do with the delay, probably arguing with the stewards and stringing it out as long as they possibly could.
Separately, I thought that Mercedes were pretty slow changing Hamilton's safety device. I appreciate that they couldn't be sure that something wasn't broken, but it still seemed to happen with less urgency than I was expecting. If Hamilton had stayed in front of Vettel, imagine the radio pressure that he'd have put on the team to get Bottas to move out of the way.
Soldato
There's a great dub of Devvo over the top of Vettel for the Hamilton incident. Cannot link due to profanity, however it got a laugh from me 
Soldato
The new owners of F1 should drop the FIA asap. They are not needed what so ever.
Apart from you cannot use the name Formula One (F1) without the FIA, they hold the rights and licensing for it.
They also set all the rules and regulations governing F1, , which I grant you would not be a bad thing to drop and start Fresh.
But then you would have no racing for a year or so, as everything was worked out legality wise, and new rules regulations and a name were laid down, if in fact, you could even get all the teams to agree to new rules and regulations.
And that would leave teams with little to no income for however long it all took, so you would probably end up loosing teams from whatever Championship it became.
They also set all the rules and regulations governing F1, , which I grant you would not be a bad thing to drop and start Fresh.
But then you would have no racing for a year or so, as everything was worked out legality wise, and new rules regulations and a name were laid down, if in fact, you could even get all the teams to agree to new rules and regulations.
And that would leave teams with little to no income for however long it all took, so you would probably end up loosing teams from whatever Championship it became.
Soldato
I thought that Bernie bought up the name F1 years ago?. If your right then just think of another name.
The rules can be done by Brawn with out a problem a year before the new formula is brought in.
The income of F1 teams comes from the new owners and not the FIA.
The FIA just charge a lot of money to F1 teams\drivers for racing.