** European League Thread (Spain/Germany/France etc) **

Last 30 minutes in the Napoli - Lazio game. If Napoli win they finish 3rd, above Lazio, and thus qualify for the CL. If Lazio draw/win they get 3rd.

Napoli was 2-0 down and they are now 2-2. Lazio with 10 men too, Parolo got a red card.
 
Quite happy Torini won 5-0, puts them above Milan. I always hated Inzaghi completely and have a distaste for an AC Milan run by Berlusconi and other seemingly similar *****.

Fired the manager half way through last year who got 22 points, appointed Seedorf who turned the team around and got 35 points, fired him to let Inzaghi have the team who has managed 52 points(26 points exactly for each 19 games). Poor record, much worse than Seedorf. 35 points per half season would have gotten Milan probably second place this season. Seedorf did such an outstanding job with a worse squad than Inzaghi has had(sold Balotelli and brought in Menez who is frankly the only reason they managed 52 points).


Benitez, well Napoli finished 2nd the year before he was there, dropped to third last year, 5th this season. 78 points down to 63 this year is a huge swing, at the same time they messed up the CL qualification against a team who were abysmal for the first half of the year(Bilbao were rock bottom of the league after 7 games, 19 points first half of the season then completely turned it around since then). Not seeing much magic there frankly.

The club seem to have gone backwards under him, they lost Cavani sure but they got 'big club spending silly money' cash for Cavani and brought Higuain for a good price and some other players. He's spent around 80mil on players IIRC, 50mil of which came from the insanely overpriced sale of Cavani. I really can't see how the last two seasons spell out Real Madrid manager.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Quite happy Torini won 5-0, puts them above Milan. I always hated Inzaghi completely and have a distaste for an AC Milan run by Berlusconi and other seemingly similar *****.

Fired the manager half way through last year who got 22 points, appointed Seedorf who turned the team around and got 35 points, fired him to let Inzaghi have the team who has managed 52 points(26 points exactly for each 19 games). Poor record, much worse than Seedorf. 35 points per half season would have gotten Milan probably second place this season. Seedorf did such an outstanding job with a worse squad than Inzaghi has had(sold Balotelli and brought in Menez who is frankly the only reason they managed 52 points).


Benitez, well Napoli finished 2nd the year before he was there, dropped to third last year, 5th this season. 78 points down to 63 this year is a huge swing, at the same time they messed up the CL qualification against a team who were abysmal for the first half of the year(Bilbao were rock bottom of the league after 7 games, 19 points first half of the season then completely turned it around since then). Not seeing much magic there frankly.

The club seem to have gone backwards under him, they lost Cavani sure but they got 'big club spending silly money' cash for Cavani and brought Higuain for a good price and some other players. He's spent around 80mil on players IIRC, 50mil of which came from the insanely overpriced sale of Cavani. I really can't see how the last two seasons spell out Real Madrid manager.
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It doesn't. Pretty much was one of the only candidates available for them is what it really came down to.

They will miss Ancelotti and i dont fancy Rafa to do anything noteworthy there.
 
Stupid decision from RM but thats not really surprising is it. Ancellotti is twice the manager Benitez is but as Lucas says, how many managers are there that would take the job and that are high profile enough. Its a poison chalice and they are going to have to start hiring the same managers again if they are not careful. RM won't win the league or CL for a while based on the Barca side they are competing against. Its not like Messi, Neymar or Suarez is nearing retirement and the rest of the side is reasonably youthful as well.
 
He is?

He's managed AC Milan at a fantastic time, then Chelsea and then Real Madrid.

Rafa has managed Valencia, Liverpool and Napoli, none of which are close to being as competitive financially as the clubs he has had yet he has the same number of league titles, domestic cups and European trophies (albeit two UEFA Cups).

He isn't.
 
Purdy said:
He is?

He's managed AC Milan at a fantastic time, then Chelsea and then Real Madrid.

Rafa has managed Valencia, Liverpool and Napoli, none of which are close to being as competitive financially as the clubs he has had yet he has the same number of league titles, domestic cups and European trophies (albeit two UEFA Cups).

He isn't.
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It was only by 2003-4 that Real became a massive european power and 05 before Barcelona became a top 5 team in the money league game. Valencia had less but not disturbingly less. The gap in money between Real/Barca and Valencia today or even in 2005 is not the gap that existed in 2001. Tv revenue increased drastically from 2000 onwards, the prem league grew faster than Spanish league to the point where Liverpool brought in more than REal in 01/02 and Arsenal more than Barcelona(they were both below Real).

in 04/05 Real were top of the money league while Barca were 70mil behind them in 6th, first year Real surpassed Utdfrom 2000 where Utd were 80mil ahead of Real. It was 2002-2005 that saw the rapid growth of Real and Barca and only since 2005 have they almost entirely dominated the league as they do today.

The results in spain were:-

99/00 Deportivo, Barca, Valencia, Zaragoza, Real.
00/01 Real, Deportivo, Mallorca, Barca, Valencia.
01/02 Valencia, Deportivo, Real, Barca, Celta(Mallorca dropped to 16th).
02/03 Real, Sociedad, Deportivo, Celta, Valencia, Barcelona.
03/04 Valencia, Barcelona, Deportivo, Real, Bilbao... Sociedad were 15th, Celta got relegated.

Late 90's and early 2000's the Spanish league was incredibly competitive. Outside of Barca and Real being top 6 teams they certainly weren't the big two, they weren't even certain to finish in CL spots and minnows often came out of nowhere and displaced them.

Valencia didn't have a monumental money gap to the top teams, they were one of the top teams. Let's not use current situation in La Liga to rewrite history. Neither Barca nor Real formed a big two, they had more but not much more financial power and over that 5 year period Barca were weak, Real had good and bad years, Deportivo were probably the most consistent team of them all.

What he did at Valencia has been blown out of all proportion by comparing it to winning the league against Real/Barca today, not even close to the same situation. What Atletico did was truly phenomenal and on an entirely different level to what Valencia/Benitez achieved over a decade earlier.


LIverpool also had the third biggest budget it he league when he took over and even when Arsenal caught up and moved ahead(in 06/07 with new stadium by 40mil or so on average) Arsenal were both servicing debt and then because Wenger is a stubborn fool, building up about 180mil in cash. So 40mil more but basically spending none of that extra on football.

When City finally started spending and went above Liverpool in financial power it still took them a few years for the money to get them to competing for top 4. When it did, Liverpool dropped below Villa and Spurs as well. So team with 3rd largest budget finished mostly third, had one great season(cl win), one almost season(finishing 2nd) and one dire season finishing 7th.

Benitez is okay but nothing special IMHO, he's taken Napoli backwards, took Liverpool's squad backwards ending with a disaster and leaving a meh team for the next three managers to do something with.

Not sure Ancelotti has that great a record. I think Milan weren't particularly good in the league, only one title over multiple years. What he did achieve was two CL wins with a below standard team and it could have been(should have been) three. That is likely why Real got him, they wanted another CL win over a league title and got precisely that.

Ancelotti for me is more of a cup specialist manager rather than a league winner.
 
Uh none of those clubs were still close to what he has had and for a cup specialist he hasn't won that many more than Rafa either.

Unless that was your rather long winded way with agreeing with me going off on tangents. (And a lot of garbage)

That Milan team wasn't below standard either
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Benitez is okay but nothing special IMHO, he's taken Napoli backwards, took Liverpool's squad backwards ending with a disaster and leaving a meh team for the next three managers to do something with.

Not sure Ancelotti has that great a record. I think Milan weren't particularly good in the league, only one title over multiple years. What he did achieve was two CL wins with a below standard team and it could have been(should have been) three. That is likely why Real got him, they wanted another CL win over a league title and got precisely that.

Ancelotti for me is more of a cup specialist manager rather than a league winner.
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I agree that Anceletti record in the league was poor - 1 win and rarely challenged for the league. However you are off your nut if you think that the Milan team was 'below standard' - it was one of the best teams that I can remember.
IIRC the year that they lost to Liverpool on pens the team was
A back four of Cafu/Nesta/Maldini/Stam
A midfield with Kaka/Pirlo/Seedorf/Gattuso
Crespo and Shevchenko up top.
The only real weakness was Dida in goal.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Benitez is okay but nothing special IMHO, he's taken Napoli backwards, took Liverpool's squad backwards ending with a disaster and leaving a meh team for the next three managers to do something with.
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and that statement shows you know nothing of what Rafa achieved at Liverpool and under what circumstances he had to work.

Napoli this year have had some horrific defensive displays and if Higuain could be relied upon to perform in pressure environments they would have made the EL final (again) and possibly have pipped Lazio to 3rd - 4th as it is is where they should be finishing in relation to wage bills etc.

Good luck to him, he'll do well there.
 
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Dortmund look like they are back. Playing Borussia MG who did very well last year and are a pretty strong side now, Dortmund 2-0 up and could/should be more. They look so much better going forward, their smoothness is back.

3-0... great counter attack... please be back. Such a shame Klopp left but he helped them make a huge turn around in last season, finished the season very strongly and left them ready for a great 2015/16.

EDIT:- almost 4-0 there, just the confidence is back, the attacking fast, they look fantastic. I'd love to see them fighting for the title this year. Wolfsburg beat Bayern twice last year, if they keep De Bruyne I think they can do even better, if Dortmund play great and can take points of Bayern then it could be much closer at the top of the table.
 
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