EV general discussion

Just a reality check, do we really believe Stellantis can deliver an EV for £20k?

E-corsa, e-208, 500-e are £30k+
E-mokka is £40k+

Regardless the current discounts but those are the OTR prices.

It seems to me these makers are promising the world delivering next to nothing.

Same thing with Tesla years back. Promising mass market cheap EV and came out with M3 that’s £40k here. Albeit it is a lot cheaper in US due to heavy subsidies.

Once upon a time the most popular car was fiesta, that thing use to be £15k max. I think EV needs to get to that level for true mass adoption?
 
pc-guy said:
Just a reality check, do we really believe Stellantis can deliver an EV for £20k?

E-corsa, e-208, 500-e are £30k+
E-mokka is £40k+
Click to expand...
These cars do not cost this much to buy. The list price on the website is utterly meaningless.

They are being openly advertised for £22k on Autotrader as has already been posted.

pc-guy said:
Regardless the current discounts but those are the OTR prices.
Click to expand...
Since when did people start paying the list price for a standard run of the mill car outside of a few select models and during the period impacted by covid? It just doesn’t happen.

Even ‘we don’t do discounts’ Tesla do discounts with 1.8% finance on a Model Y at the moment.

pc-guy said:
It seems to me these makers are promising the world delivering next to nothing.

Same thing with Tesla years back. Promising mass market cheap EV and came out with M3 that’s £40k here. Albeit it is a lot cheaper in US due to heavy subsidies.
Click to expand...
No, the Model 3 pricing was in line with the American pricing.

When journalists started talking about a £28k model 3 here, they just took the US price which is not an OTR price and converted it to £ which is just ‘boneheaded’ to quote Musk.

The US price does not include $1000 delivery, registration fees (varies by state) and tax (varies by state and county).

When you import an EV from outside the EU into the U.K. it gets a 10% import tariff applied.

It’s also more expensive to do business in the U.K. and corporate profit made here gets taxed again in America when the money is repatriated to the states.

It was just utterly dire ‘journalism’ which seemingly still impacts us today.

If you want to criticise Tesla, their car was $3k more expensive than they said once it actually launched but it’s not that material when $35k turned into a $38k base price…

Once you add on taxes and fees as you would do in the EU/UK when advertising a price to a consumer here, it’s not a $35-$38k car, the ‘real price’ is well north of $40k.

Thats before factoring the tax element is more than twice as much in the U.K. compared to the US.
pc-guy said:
Once upon a time the most popular car was fiesta, that thing use to be £15k max. I think EV needs to get to that level for true mass adoption?
Click to expand...
Have you been living under a rock for the last 4 years?
 
Last edited:
SDK^ said:
A base spec Fiesta Trend, with a 75bhp Petrol engine, manual gearbox and a 0-60 time of 15 seconds now starts from £20k
Click to expand...

This is the thing, even the cheap cars are no longer cheap.

The end of cheap cars was probably the 80s/90s as before then they were not cheap and since they have been going up as all the stuff like air bags was adding cost.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Have you been living under a rock for the last 4 years?
Click to expand...
Most people are completely out of touch with the price of cars now. Just look at the comments on YouTube car reviews - even the Pistonheads Forum is full of "How much" related comments.

The recent BMW i5 M60 with a couple of options at £100k seemed to gain the most criticism, with many saying it should be a £50k car. Well, when you look at £50k cars they are low powered Skoda's with a manual gearbox - so how should the i5 M60 be £50k ?!?

Then you have the Supercars which no one has issues with - The price of those being £300k+, plus over £100k of options, that's fine. [Despite the options - some carbon, Carplay and a couple of badges costing the same as a whole high-end car !]
 
Last edited:
SDK^ said:
A base spec Fiesta Trend, with a 75bhp Petrol engine, manual gearbox and a 0-60 time of 15 seconds now starts from £20k
Click to expand...
Totally agree. Everything is blown up.

Just saying that once upon a time before Covid people were actually buying cars and cars were relatively affordable.

Now more people lease than buy? 65% fleet and business vs 35% private.

Top seller in 2019 was fiesta vs 2023 Puma…

It’s a case for upselling. Making your cheapest more expensive so you can make the higher margin cars look good value and shift more volume. Or in fords case just stop selling the most popular cheap-ish car and sell something that’s higher margin
 
Last edited:
lawless50 said:
We have to log in to cars now :( ?
Click to expand...
We do! I had to log out the existing Bluelink account from my car, until then he/she would have been able track my every move!

Also the default bluetooth passcode is 0000 :) I've updated that to impenetrable levels of security!! I guess you still have to go into the menu and click add though, dunno how it works.

Bluelink app is really good btw, I use it to preheat/cool the cabin for 10 mins! When the tech works, it's amazing.

My car doesn't have it but I love those 360 virtual camera views for reversing/parking and auto parking. Although I don't think I'd get Tesla autopilot even if I had to money, until it's well out of beta and have a trillion miles with no head loss.
 
Ah yeah, it's all car prices (and just everything) that's more expensive in the past few years (boo).

Because EVs are more expensive compared to ICE, it shows the depreciation even more.

But I would say the flip side of that is an EV will happily keep going way past 100k, 200k miles etc, plenty of real-world examples show this.
 
Last edited:
( Did Crazy survive the ora test-drive )

Many/most, even outside fleet EV's, use PCP's, so the £20K+ ORP of that fiesta less relevant, or whatever i5m60 discount, lease company got.

Best new car deals 2024​
Below you’ll find some of the best new car finance deals on the market right now.​
​
Small cars​
Kia Picanto - £181 per month​
Dacia Sandero - £143 per month​
Renault Clio - £75 per month​
Skoda Fabia - £197 per month​
 
jpaul said:
( Did Crazy survive the ora test-drive )

Many/most, even outside fleet EV's, use PCP's, so the £20K+ ORP of that fiesta less relevant, or whatever i5m60 discount, lease company got.
Click to expand...
Where it becomes relevant though is when people look at those RRPs and then compare them to a lease deal which then gets deemed a "no brainer" because its "only" *insert small mortgage payment* for a car "worth" £35k.

Car RRPs are taken to be bloated figures that nobody pays and a justification for monthly lease payments almost interchangeably.
 
lordrobs said:
Where it becomes relevant though is when people look at those RRPs and then compare them to a lease deal which then gets deemed a "no brainer" because its "only" *insert small mortgage payment* for a car "worth" £35k.

Car RRPs are taken to be bloated figures that nobody pays and a justification for monthly lease payments almost interchangeably.
Click to expand...

Many EV companies are selling direct to the consumer, where there is no discount on the RRP e.g. Tesla and Polestar
 
jpaul said:
( Did Crazy survive the ora test-drive )

Many/most, even outside fleet EV's, use PCP's, so the £20K+ ORP of that fiesta less relevant, or whatever i5m60 discount, lease company got.

Best new car deals 2024​
Below you’ll find some of the best new car finance deals on the market right now.​
​
Small cars​
Kia Picanto - £181 per month​
Dacia Sandero - £143 per month​
Renault Clio - £75 per month​
Skoda Fabia - £197 per month​
Click to expand...
Deposit…

That clio has a near £7k deposit. How is that a deal?

I’m pretty sure Crazy said the Ora was £7-8k all in.

SDK^ said:
Many EV companies are selling direct to the consumer, where there is no discount on the RRP e.g. Tesla and Polestar
Click to expand...
It’s more nuanced that that. Both of those brands discount finance and preconfigured cars regularly. They both also push cars out to leasing companies with incentives to move them.

Polestar was ‘cheap’ on lease recently, Tesla is discounting finance on Model Y at the moment.
 
Last edited:
Sorry I’m late to the party as WiFi at center parcs wasn’t working for the first 24 hours lol but there’s an absolute ton of EV Chargers at every forest now

Rolec / VendElectric at 39p/kWh and they charge from 11pm-5am. You just put it in the space all week and get a charge

They are actually pretty full this week! Lots of middle class half termers with EVs haha. Quite a few PHEVs have also snagged chargers though which would be annoying if I was in a BEV and couldn’t get a space
 
Anything to watch out for when looking at used Model Y's? Probably looking at a couple of years old, £35-40k.

Or any other obvious alternatives? We had a look at the Enyaq and were fairly keen on it but didn't realise how far down in price Teslas have come and so went for a drive in that and preferred it.
 
EH75 said:
Anything to watch out for when looking at used Model Y's? Probably looking at a couple of years old, £35-40k.

Or any other obvious alternatives? We had a look at the Enyaq and were fairly keen on it but didn't realise how far down in price Teslas have come and so went for a drive in that and preferred it.
Click to expand...
I have one and had a model 3 for 2 years prior to that. They are good cars and no there is not really anything to look out for other than usual cosmetic issues and it should still be under warranty. I'd just check they haven't taken the PPF off the rear haunches and the mud flaps or they will get peppered with stones.

The early ones have overly stiff suspension, I cant say for sure when it changed but some suggest the first suspension change was when they added the parcel shelf in boot, it allegedly changed a second time at some point prior to early 2023. That's the other thing, early cars didn't have a parcel shelf, only privacy glass protecting the boot.

You say Tesla's have come down, but I'd say if anything the Y is holding values a tad higher than it's competitors. If you checked out the Enyak than it makes sense to also check out EV6's and Ionic 5's, they are a bit cheaper on the used market than the Y and also very good. There is also the Ford Mach-e VW ID.4 as obvious competitors but they are not as well rated.

If you are not aware, Tesla are slowly opening up their network in the UK but its only about 33 sites out of 135 at the moment and with the UK's new regulations on contactless payment and roaming coming into force at the end of the year for existing chargers, some of those may have to close to non-Tesla's again. It's likely to be only new 'V4' sites going forward unless some massive rebuild programme takes place. They are actually re-building a bunch of welcome break chargers with V3's right now so those will not be opening up as that would be in breach of those said regulations.

If you are a Tesla owner, you'll be hard pressed to find rapid charging cheaper though outside of 4pm-8pm, most sites are ~35p/kwh and ~45p inside those hours. Most over rapids at >70p and you'll be hard pressed to find AC charging for <40p/kwh in most places.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom