Deleted User 298457
Deleted User 298457
It really isn't. You have read too much about "red meat = bad" because the maths on red meat includes the deforestation in South America.
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
Yeah but a nice marbled steak on the BBQ, cooked just on the medium side of rare.... *Chefs kiss*
Or a nice chunk of pork belly cooked so it literally melts in the mouth.... *Double chefs kiss*
I think I may have gone off topic, er how to bring this back...
...or a nice burger cooked on your electric grill powered from the V2L on your EV.
(I think I got away with that)
It is in my BMW PHEV. until the engine gets warm you only get 60% power
Soldato
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Yeah but you have a proper engine
Good. That's the idea, isn't it?
This doesn't make any sense. Demand for EVs is higher than ever. More, better, and cheaper EVs are coming onto the market all the time. The technology and charger networks are rapidly improving, and users who've gone electric are mostly highly satisfied with the cars. Why would the market be remotely saturated?
It seems highly unlikely to me that hydrogen is an option that will be available to you. I think hydrogen will find niche uses, but there is never going to be the kind of widespread adoption that would create a network of hydrogen "petrol stations" for private customers.
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Because production is higher than demand - it has to be and will become even more so as the zero emission mandate increases. Manufacturers have to sell a certain number of electric cars irrespective of demand for them in order to be able to sell conventional cars. If demand fell to zero overnight they'd still have to register a significant volume anyway, even without a buyer.
You can see the effect of this supply/demand imbalance on the used market, it is the reason behind the huge depreciation we've seen over the last year.
It's the entire reason why we even have the zero emissions mandate - if demand for electric cars on its own would have been sufficient to ensure the right volumes were being sold into the market, there would have been no need for the mandate as the market would have done it anyway.
This will depend entirely on your view as to whether the market should be controlled and directed by the government or dictated by the free market or not. You can make a case for either of those.
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My take away from that is "eat as much of it as you can now because soon you might not be able to"
Back on topic, trip to Wales was a complete non-event.
Quick top up in Morrisons Aberystwyth while we picked up some groceries.
Left the car on charge in the main car park in New Quay while we spent the day on the beach.
Total extra time spent charging = 1 minute at most (plugging in, swiping Electroverse card).
Cost, ~£40 for 380 miles @ ~3.8 mi/kWh
Exactly. 75% of your ZEV can be 'borrowed' (aka bought) this year but that drops to just 25% by 2026. Its quite the numbers game balancing the cost of a borrowed vehicle with no tangible value (other than being able to sell an ICE vehicle) vs building a car you may not be able to sell profitably.
Strange times for the motor industry!
Imagine if this was the method they'd chosen to encourage the use of diesel cars when they were the answer.
Even without any mandates at all we still ended up in the situation whereby in some ranges you couldn't buy a petrol version any more - there was nothing stopping the manufacturers offering a petrol version, they just didn't have the demand for them so didn't offer them. Even in those ranges where a petrol version was offered the sales were so low that they almost don't exist on the used market now. I am not sure why the same approach couldn't have been taken with electric cars?
Even without any mandates at all we still ended up in the situation whereby in some ranges you couldn't buy a petrol version any more - there was nothing stopping the manufacturers offering a petrol version, they just didn't have the demand for them so didn't offer them. Even in those ranges where a petrol version was offered the sales were so low that they almost don't exist on the used market now. I am not sure why the same approach couldn't have been taken with electric cars?
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Hydrogen will never be the solution for personal transport like cars and vans, so good luck with that.
I'm with you completely on this. If EVs are better (and for many people they absolutely are) then as you say the market would shift given time to meet this increased demand.
All the mandate seems to be able to achieve is to increase the cost of ICE vehicles while increasing the depreciation of EVs through over supply.
With my crystal ball in overdrive I see the definition of ZEV being watered down to include PHEVs with a suitable EV only range. I can't see any other way the situation will be sustainable for the motor industry without the need for an embarrassing (and complicated) complete reversal of policy.
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I know you've already had an earful for this, but some figures:
- Average car in the UK emits 160gCO2/km.
- Average grid emissions are 220g/kWh
- Average EV economy is 5.44km/kWh
...so 220/5.44 is 40gCO2/km for EVs, on average. When the grid is cleaner on good renewable days, such as <30gCO2/kWh, the average EV figure comes down to <5.5gCO2/km, less than 4% the emissions of an average ICE car.
As you can imagine, this figure actually becomes even more exaggerated comparing town driving, where ICE will be less efficient (pumping out more CO2) and EVs shine - I regularly saw over 4.5mi/kWh (sometimes even over 5) when my driving was focussed around town. Use that figure, and an average grid day means CO2 emissions of 30gCO2/km, or just under 4gCO2/km on a better grid day detailed above.
Today's grid makeup in the UK means the average EV has offset its higher CO2 build cost by around 18,000miles. That figure will only ever get smaller as the grid gets cleaner and from then on, as the figures above show, the CO2 reductions are phenomenal.
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Which in theory is a desirable outcome - the product you want off the market is very expensive, the product you want it replaced with is very cheap. But that ignores all of the side effects of doing this and the unintended consequences. There is growing anti electric car sentiment in the press - why? How much of it is justified? Some of it probably is but much of it isn't. But what effect will it eventually have on policy? And how much of it is caused by telling people what they must buy and removing their choice to buy other things? How many of the people who are against that would probably have ended up buying an electric car anyway given completely free choice because for some applications, just like with diesel, an electric car is simply better?
What would really have been wrong with allowing that small proportion of people who insist they need to tow a caravan 500 miles to keep buying a diesel, provided a manufacturer was happy to keep selling them one (Which they eventually wouldn't be, because market forces would do the job of removing the product from sale anyway).
Once electric cars become genuinelly as good as the alternative, nobody would want the alternative. We didn't have to ban diesel in the end did we? It's going away because petrol cars are so much more efficient now and people naturally decided they didn't want one, so they began to be removed from the market.
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Some obscene profits on EVs. I saw it reported that Porsche makes £40k profit per Taycan.
Yup, building EVs profitably can be done, just look at how much Tesla make per car.
There is a lot of macro economic factors impacting the car market at the moment and it’s disingenuous to say the difficulties they anre having is due to ZEV mandates. Manufacturers are also having problems shifting ICE cars as well.
It’s almost like no one wants to pay 10+% APR for a car (new or used), oh wait, they don’t.
You don’t have to look very far to find other countries which seem to be managing with the transition a lot better than the U.K. on the surface.
There is a lot of macro economic factors impacting the car market at the moment and it’s disingenuous to say the difficulties they anre having is due to ZEV mandates. Manufacturers are also having problems shifting ICE cars as well.
It’s almost like no one wants to pay 10+% APR for a car (new or used), oh wait, they don’t.
You don’t have to look very far to find other countries which seem to be managing with the transition a lot better than the U.K. on the surface.
I was thinking more along the lines of over supply. So lets say that brand X currently sells 1 EV for every 6 ICE vehicles but next year but now needs to make that 1 for every 4.5 vehicles (or 2 for ever 9 to keep the number whole) how much are they going to have to discount those EVs by to shift the extra stock? Then the big question, how much meat is left in that sale in terms of profit to the manufacturer.
