EV general discussion

Mr Jack said:
Good. That's the idea, isn't it,
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Goverment distortion of markets often leads to undesirable outcomes so it's not at all clear that it's "good".

Mr Jack said:
This doesn't make any sense. Demand for EVs is higher than ever. More, better, and cheaper EVs are coming onto the market all the time. The technology and charger networks are rapidly improving, and users who've gone electric are mostly highly satisfied with the cars. Why would the market be remotely saturated?
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Nope

New car sales down

www.thisismoney.co.uk

EV sales continue to falter as more drivers turn to hybrids in March

Market share for EVs slipped from 16.2% in March 2023 to 15.2% last month, as private buyers shunned battery-powered cars and instead turned to hybrid and plug-in hybrid models.
www.thisismoney.co.uk www.thisismoney.co.uk

2nd hand EV's losing a load of their value, dealers don't want them.

inews.co.uk

Second-hand EV prices plummet but lack of chargers is still putting off buyers

The average price of a used EV has now dropped below £20,000 but dealers are reluctant to stock them citing a lack of demand
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk
 
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Caracus2k said:
Goverment distortion of markets often leads to undesirable outcomes so it's not at all clear that it's "good".
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All markets are "distorted"; "free" markets don't exist in the real world. This is especially true of things like cars which are so regulated and dependent on governments to ensure the necessary infrastructure for them.

And, yes, in this is case it's 100% clear that it is good. We cannot continue with the status quo on CO2 emissions.

Caracus2k said:
New car sales down
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Actually, they're up, as your own source shows. They're down as a percentage of market share. Which nicely demonstrates why the government needs to do more to reduce ICE sales.

Caracus2k said:
2nd hand EV's losing a load of their value, dealers don't want them.
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It's entirely to be expected that second hand EVs won't hold their value all that well; that's the inevitable result of rapidly improving technology and rapidly falling technology prices. I think I discussed this upthread somewhere.
 
Mr Jack said:
Actually, they're up, as your own source shows. They're down as a percentage of market share. Which nicely demonstrates why the government needs to do more to reduce ICE sales.
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Or arguably why they need to do more to support the transition to EV.

Removing choice isn't the right way of getting people to transition to EVs, it's the easy way. The right way involves removing the barriers to adoption and incentivisation.
 
…and providing some good leadership from government.

At the moment our government is literally the opposite of leadership, what ever that is…

Instead of delivering positive messaging to counter FUD and increase awareness, they are ‘cutting the green crap’.

In other news, Shell recharge just announced another price hike on their charging network - 75p (app) 79p (contactless) per kwh for AC and for rapids (depending on location) its 81p-89p for app and 85p-93p for contactless

Literally daylight robbery, needless to say, I’ll not be using those on principle.
 
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Mr Jack said:
I would say both are needed.
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The issue is that the problems really need to be addressed first. Its fairly well accepted that EVs currently work for people if they have the ability to charge at home. So, what about those that don't? We are already in the first phase of reducing the supply of ICE vehicles to the market yet there seems to be diddly squat being put in place for the huge number of people in that situation.
 
Ive just switched back to Agile from IO

bloodiedathame said:
Where do you get the rates from? I've just switched to Agile having compared the last 6 months and realising I could have saved £300...
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Use Octopus Compare app and it will do it based on meter data to really annoy you :D

Here for web based

Latest Agile Octopus Prices Dashboard

View current and future Agile Octopus tariff rates for your region.
www.agiledashboard.co.uk www.agiledashboard.co.uk
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
Ive just switched back to Agile from IO



Use Octopus Compare app and it will do it based on meter data to really annoy you :D

Here for web based

Latest Agile Octopus Prices Dashboard

View current and future Agile Octopus tariff rates for your region.
www.agiledashboard.co.uk www.agiledashboard.co.uk
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It was Octopus Compare I used to look at the last 6 month of Go vs Agile.

Agiledashboard looks good, thanks!
 
Mr Jack said:
Which nicely demonstrates why the government needs to do more to reduce ICE sales.
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Or why they need to be better products.

When something offers an improvement over the alternative, people will buy it without the need to restrict choice.

Unless you think electric cars will never be as good as petrol ones? Which would be an interesting point, which would support the need for a restriction of choice to get people to buy them.
 
If you are comparing battery charging rates/times vs filling a car with fuel, which isn't the be all and end all for everyone, in fact for me its so low down on the list it is irrelevant. I'd never go back to the inconvenience of an ICE car that forces me to go out of my way to fuel (and can be done for free/cheaply from my solar), oh and it can't power my house when there is a power cut, or if I want to use it as the electric supply when camping.

You have to define better for an individual use case, not one size fits all.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Or why they need to be better products.

When something offers an improvement over the alternative, people will buy it without the need to restrict choice.

Unless you think electric cars will never be as good as petrol ones? Which would be an interesting point, which would support the need for a restriction of choice to get people to buy them.
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It’s time for the population to stop being so selfish tbh. Are EVs ideal for long distances? No. Are they better in terms of decarbonisation that is absolutely required for our continued inhabitance of this planet? Yes. Will better technology likely appear later, also yes.

Unfortunately left to their own devices, people are going to continue to be selfish, hence the need for legislation.
 
battery tech can still pull it back range/power-density/charge-time - solid-state

lordrobs said:
The issue is that the problems really need to be addressed first. Its fairly well accepted that EVs currently work for people if they have the ability to charge at home. So, what about those that don't? We are already in the first phase of reducing the supply of ICE vehicles to the market yet there seems to be diddly squat being put in place for the huge number of people in that situation.
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read full story about hertz dabbling in ev's which must have set the tone in usa
- customers couldn't be bothered to destination charge them, repairs costing too much, musk reducing prices that collapsed 80,000 car inventorys worth,
so sold them off for $16K/ea ... but the taxi drivers leasing from hertz were happy. ... touch & go for company ; their polestar investment also impacted

How Hertz’s Bet on Teslas Went Horribly Sideways​

 
I see EVM has put a total cost of ownership video over 4 years, from a brand new Model 3 SR+.


Interesting monthly/yearly cost, showing that the actual cost isn't as tragic as some would have you believe. Will do the calcs for my car soon, but that will be much lower as my PCH monthlies were tiny, and I bought the car from the leasing company for a song.
 
Scougar said:
EMISSIONS are NOT resolved with electric vehicles. I don't want to derail, but it is an absolute myth. They are offset somewhere else (i.e. a power station). The environmental cost for creating an electric car is far worse than a regular engine car as well.

It may be different as I'm in the USA for the past 10 years, but I can't imagine the situation is really any different in the UK.
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UK electricity generation is over 55% renewable and increasing every year.

Already, overnight charging is mostly from offshore wind.

My 4 year EV driving & charging is averaging at 37g CO2 per kWh (about 3.5 miles). And obviously there are no other tailpipe emissions/pollution either.

My previous car, BMW 520d was averaging 420g CO2 per mile [assuming the official ICE CO2 tests are accurate in the real world :p]
So for 3.5 miles that would be 1470g CO2 [vs 37g for my EV]

That is a significant difference !
 
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Personal car emissions are a drop in the ocean in reality, it's very a small piece of a much bigger problem, far too much time and energy is wasted focusing on this miniscule detail as it's an easy one to target.
 
sandys said:
Personal car emissions are a drop in the ocean in reality, it's very a small piece of a much bigger problem, far too much time and energy is wasted focusing on this miniscule detail as it's an easy one to target.
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Are you sure?

Perhaps have a look at the below link
ourworldindata.org

Cars, planes, trains: where do CO₂ emissions from transport come from?

Transport accounts for around one-fifth of global CO₂ emissions. Three-quarters of this is from road transport.
ourworldindata.org ourworldindata.org
 
[TW]Fox said:
This is about 25 miles per gallon, are you sure?
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That included the well to tank* CO2 to get the fuel to the pump :)
The pump fuel doesn’t magically get there :p

This is about 609g CO2 per litre

*transporting, so not including building of any assets.
 
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sandys said:
Personal car emissions are a drop in the ocean in reality, it's very a small piece of a much bigger problem, far too much time and energy is wasted focusing on this miniscule detail as it's an easy one to target.
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For me it’s about reducing the local level pollution - the stuff we are breathing in from exhausts.
Go outside, do a ride/run/walk where traffic passes by, or just following an ICE car in your own car, is enough to make me feel sick/trigger asthma
 
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