EV general discussion

SDK^ said:
For me it’s about reducing the local level pollution - the stuff we are breathing in from exhausts.
Go outside, do a ride/run/walk where traffic passes by, or just following an ICE car in your own car, is enough to make me feel sick/trigger asthma
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100%

Some people seem totally ignorant to particulate.
 
lordrobs said:
The issue is that the problems really need to be addressed first. Its fairly well accepted that EVs currently work for people if they have the ability to charge at home. So, what about those that don't? We are already in the first phase of reducing the supply of ICE vehicles to the market yet there seems to be diddly squat being put in place for the huge number of people in that situation.
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how many people buy brand new cars without the ability to charge either at home or at work?.

I know people can spend their own money on what ever they want but I wonder if this is a theoretical issue rather than a practical one.

some ICE cars will still be sold as well . the challenge is getting those who an EV can work for them but they stubbornly refuse to go that way with a " you will take my gun out of my cold dead hands" attitude to buy a new EV... that way those who are fortunate enough to be able to afford a new car but genuinely have no ability to charge them affordably can buy an ICE until the infrastructure improves.

I fully agree we need better destination charging and also agree that Shell are utter (insert expletive here) for increasing prices whilst electricity is falling in price.

but then expecting an oil company to do anything else is probably naive.
we really need a nationalised destination charging rollout that doesn't need to make a profit
 
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bigmike20vt said:
why not both... carrot AND stick.?
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Because it is disproportionately hard on those who are least able to do anything about it.

You remove the number of ICE cars. That has a trickle down effect into the used market. Brenda who lives at number 32 suddenly finds that to buy a 0.9 TCE Dacia Sandero so she can get to work suddenly costs £2k more. Selfish *****, why doesn't she get an electric car? Well... Maybe because she lives on a terraced street with no option for charging other than spending 90p/kWh while she twiddles her thumbs.

You can't remove the choice without putting in the support. Well, you can and they are. Doesn't make it any less wrong though.
 
bigmike20vt said:
how many people buy brand new cars without the ability to charge either at home or at work?.

I know people can spend their own money on what ever they want but I wonder if this is a theoretical issue rather than a practical one.

some ICE cars will still be sold as well . the challenge is getting those who an EV can work for them but they stubbornly refuse to go that way with a " you will take my gun out of my cold dead hands" attitude to buy a new EV.

I fully agree we need better destination charging and also agree that Shell are utter (insert expletive here) for increasing prices whilst electricity is falling in price.

but then expecting an oil company to do anything else is probably naive.
we really need a nationalised destination charging rollout that doesn't need to make a profit
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The 'they can just buy used ICE cars' argument doesn't stack up so well when you remove the supply at the new car end.

Unless living in a terraced house with on street parking means that you'll have a 15 year old Corsa that cost a fortune and you'll be grateful for it.
 
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lordrobs said:
Because it is disproportionately hard on those who are least able to do anything about it.

You remove the number of ICE cars. That has a trickle down effect into the used market. Brenda who lives at number 32 suddenly finds that to buy a 0.9 TCE Dacia Sandero so she can get to work suddenly costs £2k more. Selfish *****, why doesn't she get an electric car? Well... Maybe because she lives on a terraced street with no option for charging other than spending 90p/kWh while she twiddles her thumbs.

You can't remove the choice without putting in the support. Well, you can and they are. Doesn't make it any less wrong though.
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I just looked on auto trader. still plenty of really cheap ICE cars so am not convinced it's happening like you say.
still plenty of time for infrastructure to improve and we should all be crapping on the government for not doing more to get that sorted.
 
dlockers said:
100%

Some people seem totally ignorant to particulate.
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Exactly
Some people claim EV’s are a solution to a problem which doesn’t exist.

Sure, that’s because the pollution ICE drivers are emitting is mostly impacting everyone else, not the driver.
Run a pipe from the exhaust into the cabin whilst driving around and then see the problem :p Keep your own pollution !

If ICE drivers were made to do this then the Government wouldn’t need any financial incentives and the uptake in EV’s would be swift :)
 
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bigmike20vt said:
it's going to be over a decade before that starts to be an issue imo and by then if destination charging isn't much better then that would be a criminal failure of the government
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Things are fine now but already the ZEV mandate demands are out stripping the demands of the car market. As the ability to buy credits deminishes (which is a sharp tail off) then ICE cars are going to have to be more expensive to buy at all levels either because of manufacturers trying to offset the fines or through good old supply and demand.

Head a couple of streets out of any City or Town centre. What exactly is going to be put in on those rows and rows of terraced houses with bumper to bumper cars parked everywhere? Absolutely nowt will be the answer in most cases.

The irony is that ICE = bad, EV = good is too simplistic anyway. We could swap my wife's car for a 5.0 V8 and mine for a Model 3 and my emissions would probably still be higher due to doing over 20 times the mileage. The reality is that she has a little economical supermini with the annual emissions of a cows fart due to the miniscule mileage she does.

The whole approach is so transparent. Rishi and his local grid busting heated swimming pool telling us how we will save the planet by not having the option of a 1.0 Supermini to pop up the shops in. Give it a rest!

Target people like me (well my employer) if you want to make a difference. The irony is that people I speak to in roles like mine are holding off having an EV for the time being despite having basically zero company car tax.
 
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lordrobs said:
Things are fine now but already the ZEV mandate demands are out stripping the demands of the car market. As the ability to buy credits deminishes (which is a sharp tail off) then ICE cars are going to have to be more expensive to buy at all levels either because of manufacturers trying to offset the fines or through good old supply and demand.

Head a couple of streets out of any City or Town centre. What exactly is going to be put in on those rows and rows of terraced houses with bumper to bumper cars parked everywhere? Absolutely nowt will be the answer in most cases.



Target people like me (well my employer) if you want to make a difference. The irony is that people I speak to in roles like mine are holding off having an EV for the time being despite having basically zero company car tax.
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The fleet market have been the biggest drivers (pardon the pun!) to motoring net zero so far. And they will continue to be the biggest driver for the next few years. I know of teams of service engineers that have switched to Tesla M3’s. They do one less call a day to cover charging time if needs be, but they are making it work, and this isn’t a big company either.

All 2500 of our company cars will be EV by 2025.
 
m4rmite said:
Are you sure?

Perhaps have a look at the below link
ourworldindata.org

Cars, planes, trains: where do CO₂ emissions from transport come from?

Transport accounts for around one-fifth of global CO₂ emissions. Three-quarters of this is from road transport.
ourworldindata.org ourworldindata.org
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The global impact is not my concern really, nothing done here is going to change other parts of the world, bares no relation to the UK, plenty of papers on GHG from ONS and gov uk that paint a picture for here and for transport not much has changed since the 90s biggest impact on that was when we all got locked up for covid.

Plenty of UK centric info from our lovely civil servants here and here

SDK^ said:
For me it’s about reducing the local level pollution - the stuff we are breathing in from exhausts.
Go outside, do a ride/run/walk where traffic passes by, or just following an ICE car in your own car, is enough to make me feel sick/trigger asthma
Click to expand...

Surely your EV has air quality devices to purify the air, you shouldn't have any issues in your own car?

I am not against it in the slightest, as I private buyer I have zero incentives to go down the EV route yet I bought a car capable of 'zero' emission transport anyway for these reasons, I could have saved 10s of thousands forgoing electrification. Though I love all the smells, noise and vibrations from ICE too, so I am weird like that.

dlockers said:
100%

Some people seem totally ignorant to particulate.
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There's more to air quality than what comes out of an exhaust. road based transport (more than just cars) particulate matter accounted for 10% pf PM2.5 and PM10 particulate matter in UK, the rest comes from so many other sources like burning wood and biomass, Industrial and domestic combustion etc. whilst exhaust emissions have dropped non exhaust particle emissions like tyres, road wear and brakes have risen significantly which are all contributory to things like Asthma etc. The modelling from Defra suggests that nothing being done now or anticipated in 2030 is going to meaningfully impact that.

I'm sure all those wood burners installed since the energy prices spiked have not helped :D (not referring to Drax :D) It was amusing to see that when we've had the highest peaks of particulate matter impacting our air quality it's tended to come over from Europe/Iceland when you look at the data, I thought Brexit was supposed to stop free foreign travel .... :p ;) :D
 
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In other news Fisker is desperate to make some money and servere discounts are available on their cars in stock, 40k for the big battery extreme, do you feel lucky punk :eek:

I really like the look of the car, shame it seems so troubled.

Bottom of the email offer is very reassuring

'Due to the current economic situation of the manufacturer Fisker Group Inc. and the Fisker sales companies in Europe, there is a risk of limited support and limited services for the vehicles. Buyers must expect a permanent loss of the enforceability of claims for material defects and warranty claims. By concluding a vehicle purchase contract after April 5, 2024, the buyer of a Fisker Ocean declares that he has been informed accordingly and nevertheless wishes to purchase a Fisker Ocean in view of the risk described.'

But at least it has the fixed software 2.0.

I did buy a Chevrolet once like this, when they exited UK, but it was only 14k for a new car and was essentially a prettier Vauxhall Antara so didn't feel it was that risky, we had that for maybe a decade, our Volvo replaced it and it was great apart from fuel economy and DPF issues from using a diesel 4x4 tow car as a city car most of the time, bargain, this is something else.

How low does it need to go before I'd take a punt on it.....hmmm, something to think about but when I can buy a top of the line ex30 rocketship for that or a year old EV6 GT with 6yr warranty, it's not cheap enough.
 
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Tinders said:
The fleet market have been the biggest drivers (pardon the pun!) to motoring net zero so far. And they will continue to be the biggest driver for the next few years. I know of teams of service engineers that have switched to Tesla M3’s. They do one less call a day to cover charging time if needs be, but they are making it work, and this isn’t a big company either.

All 2500 of our company cars will be EV by 2025.
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Yeah it is very use case dependant. If you end up back home / a fixed location every night it is much more viable.

Going EV would actually be a very good look for our company right now which the boss acknowledges. He also doesn't want us to have the hassle of charging before we get to hotels wasting our own time. Reliable and readily available charging at hotels will be the catalyst for change at our place for our massive fleet of two company cars.

I'd be surprised if our next van isn't electric though as that just runs around locally.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Two people can get £10 with a referral link, just saying ;)
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I think 2 people split £10 and only after both have charged.

  • Split £10.00 credit with each friend that signs up using your link.​

  • You'll both need to complete a charge to receive the credit!​

 
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Considering Agile instead of Go/Intelligent Go. We can't do much load shifting, and I don't do many miles, expecting ~1400kWh/year in home EV charging. Seems quite complicated to work out though.

We also have a reasonable concentration of 1600-1900 energy usage (oven mostly), though the official Octopus Agile dashboard/comparison still reckons I'd have saved 33% or £121 since 11th December, or 36% if I only consider the usage since getting the Tesla a few weeks ago. We're currently just on the flexible/SVR pricing at the moment.
 
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