EV general discussion

Delvis · 24 Jun 2021 at 13:55

AndrewNR said:
I know, hence why I would imagine it's better to buy one and sell it after 3 years?
£335 p/month on a Kona seems crazy to me, although a quick check suggests even a standard 1.0 petrol is circa. £280 p/month. I guess at 10k per year you save £55 a month on fuel?

Wife's new i20 at 20k mileage is £208 pm

Spleen Sauce · 24 Jun 2021 at 14:03

b0rn2sk8 said:
You are taking more risk with a PCP but prices would need to tank well below normal car residuals to make a lease worth it IMO.

Can't find a decent PCP deal where the interest rate makes it 'worth' it. Still looking though.

EddScott · 24 Jun 2021 at 14:13

Hmm, anyone in here have a Polestar 2?

Very nearly decided on one but would be great to get real world opinion - particularly if the Performance Pack is worth having as a Top Gear review said not to bother. Can't say I'm particularly bothered with Brembos and Ohlins.

b0rn2sk8 · 24 Jun 2021 at 14:14

Spleen Sauce said:
Can't find a decent PCP deal where the interest rate makes it 'worth' it. Still looking though.

The interest rate is only relevant if you want to keep the car. If you just plan on selling it or trading it in at the end then all that matters is how much you’ll actually pay compared to a lease.

SDK^ · 24 Jun 2021 at 14:28

EddScott said:
Hmm, anyone in here have a Polestar 2?

Very nearly decided on one but would be great to get real world opinion - particularly if the Performance Pack is worth having as a Top Gear review said not to bother. Can't say I'm particularly bothered with Brembos and Ohlins.

There are several P2 owners on here, including myself.
I don't think the Performance Pack is worth the £5k. The wheels looks amazing but that is the only plus. The suspension requires manual adjustment (which is tricky) and the Brembo brakes will hardly ever be used due to brake re-gen doing 99% of the stopping.

Use that money to upgrade to the 20" wheels and spec the Pilot and/or Plus pack.

Greebo · 24 Jun 2021 at 14:35

Rilot said:
What I want to know is where are all the BEV cabrolets?

VW are meant to be considering a roadster id3. Bentley is doing one as well.

But to be honest most arent expected until near 2030.

Basher · 24 Jun 2021 at 14:58

EddScott said:
Hmm, anyone in here have a Polestar 2?

Very nearly decided on one but would be great to get real world opinion - particularly if the Performance Pack is worth having as a Top Gear review said not to bother. Can't say I'm particularly bothered with Brembos and Ohlins.

I've got a Polestar with the Perf Pack LOVE it. I think it totally changes the looks (for the better). That said, I only have it because it didn't cost me any more to have it. If it was my own money, I would say it's not worth the £5k.

The Leather (whilst expensive) is much better value IMO. The leather is really lovely and adds a bit of class.

EddScott · 24 Jun 2021 at 15:08

Thanks chaps.

I've had a look on the Polestar site and there a couple of cars pre-spec'd with two of the three packs included - not the performance pack. I have two old JDM cars for the thrills so not really needed for my every day car.

If I can get the payments paid by my company (not vat registered) and reduces my corporation tax bill then I'm very tempted by the P2. I have a 330 touring so space is useful for us - 2 adults, 2 kids under 10. Bikes on the top etc

Basher · 24 Jun 2021 at 15:17

EddScott said:
Thanks chaps.

I've had a look on the Polestar site and there a couple of cars pre-spec'd with two of the three packs included - not the performance pack. I have two old JDM cars for the thrills so not really needed for my every day car.

If I can get the payments paid by my company (not vat registered) and reduces my corporation tax bill then I'm very tempted by the P2. I have a 330 touring so space is useful for us - 2 adults, 2 kids under 10. Bikes on the top etc

The performance pack (ironically) doesn't add anything to the performance, anyway.

If you're used to the touring, you'll be disappointed with the space in the P*, but with a roof rack etc you can probably make it work.

kitkat9933 · 24 Jun 2021 at 23:17

b0rn2sk8 said:
The interest rate is only relevant if you want to keep the car. If you just plan on selling it or trading it in at the end then all that matters is how much you’ll actually pay compared to a lease.

not quite true. In a pcp you have equity in the car as you’re paying capital and interest.

Often at the end you have equity to use as your deposit for the next car. Or you can sell it for more than the outstanding buy value etc

I would always look at pcp vs lease as what you pay over the contract length, but if you’re buying right most times you will have equity on top of it.

Basher · 25 Jun 2021 at 08:29

b0rn2sk8 said:
The interest rate is only relevant if you want to keep the car. If you just plan on selling it or trading it in at the end then all that matters is how much you’ll actually pay compared to a lease.

The interest rate is a big part of how much you pay, though. So it's hugely relevant.

Greebo · 25 Jun 2021 at 08:44

Basher said:
The interest rate is a big part of how much you pay, though. So it's hugely relevant.

Only in so far as its a factor in how much a month your payments are but doesnt matter when comparing between types.

For example, if its still cheaper per month to buy your car on pcp lets say than the lease cost you have been quoted, are you bothered if the interest rate is 2.9% or 29%?

Fact is its still cheaper or it isnt.

Basher · 25 Jun 2021 at 08:47

Greebo said:
Only in so far as its a factor in how much a month your payments are but doesnt matter when comparing between types.

For example, if its still cheaper per month to buy your car on pcp lets say than the lease cost you have been quoted, are you bothered if the interest rate is 2.9% or 29%?

Fact is its still cheaper or it isnt.

When someone says they care about the interest rate, they clearly mean they care about the cost the interest rate creates.

To say the interest rate isn't important is a bit misleading. It's a major factor in how much something costs. If you can secure a lower rate, clearly you'll pay less.

To answer your question, yes - you'd care that the interest rate is 29% because you know that it isn't a competitive rate and therefore you're paying more than you could be.

Spleen Sauce · 25 Jun 2021 at 08:54

Thing I'm seeing with PCPs is that unless the interest rate is very low the monthly costs can't really compete with lease deals anyway - especially when you factor in either a deposit/up front payment for either.

Suspect the Tesla is just going to be too expensive for me.

Journey · 25 Jun 2021 at 09:01

Spleen Sauce said:
Thing I'm seeing with PCPs is that unless the interest rate is very low the monthly costs can't really compete with lease deals anyway - especially when you factor in either a deposit/up front payment for either.

Suspect the Tesla is just going to be too expensive for me.

How long were you planning to keep the car? Have you completed a TCO calculation based off various residual values at the end of your desired time and number of miles?

Spleen Sauce · 25 Jun 2021 at 09:07

Journey said:
How long were you planning to keep the car? Have you completed a TCO calculation based off various residual values at the end of your desired time and number of miles?

Probably 3 or 4 years, 10k miles a year (though my mileage can very wildly with my job, at the moment its very little but about to increase in the next few months, so trying my best to work out a sensible average).

SDK^ · 25 Jun 2021 at 09:13

Greebo said:
For example, if its still cheaper per month to buy your car on pcp lets say than the lease cost you have been quoted, are you bothered if the interest rate is 2.9% or 29%?

Yes you should absolutely be bothered. If the 'cheaper' deal you have is 29% interest then there is scope to get it even cheaper (even if the 29% option is less cost).
Basically what you're saying is that it is okay to get ripped off, if the deal you go for is cheaper than another one.

jpaul · 25 Jun 2021 at 09:21

Spleen Sauce said:
Thing I'm seeing with PCPs is that unless the interest rate is very low the monthly costs can't really compete with lease deals anyway

I thought PCP is, just, naturally more expensive as the company is incorporating additional cost to offset the equity they (psychologically) leave you with;
if you over-estimate your mileage then you can build additional equity with a pcp; however pcp ability to buy at the end and not pay for minor niggles - scuffed wheels etc is atrractive.

Basher said:
The performance pack (ironically) doesn't add anything to the performance, anyway.

expensive, that seems the issue ? the bigger rims could detract from the ride, but the adjustable dampers could improve driving pleasure. (quasi performance)

b0rn2sk8 · 25 Jun 2021 at 09:23

That’s the point I was trying to make. When comparing a pcp to a lease all that matter is how much it actually costs you to own over the period of ownership which includes any money you get back by selling the car at the end of the PCP.

The interest rate on a PCP is going to be around 4.5-5%, yup it’s expensive compared to a loan or mortgage but dealer finance always is more expensive, it’s nothing new and you’ll see those rates on normal run of the mill cars as well.

Leasing a Mode 3 LR with no options and 12k miles is going to cost north of £580/month with a healthy down payment (or roughly £32k over the 4 year term).

The question becomes, can you PCP the same car for the same period for less. I think you could given how strong the residuals are on them, even factoring in a drop in the market. The PCP carries more risk as the value of the car at the end isn’t certain.

Basher · 25 Jun 2021 at 09:32

jpaul said:
I thought PCP is, just, naturally more expensive as the company is incorporating additional cost to offset the equity they (psychologically) leave you with;
if you over-estimate your mileage then you can build additional equity with a pcp; however pcp ability to buy at the end and not pay for minor niggles - scuffed wheels etc is atrractive.

expensive, that seems the issue ? the bigger rims could detract from the ride, but the adjustable dampers could improve driving pleasure. (quasi performance)

VT is also a nice benefit of PCP, in case you get in negative equity.

On the P*, yeah I think it's just too expensive. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE mine and think the Leather/PP really adds to it, but if it was my money I wouldn't spend the extra £9k on them.