EV general discussion

Ok I’ll reframe, I can’t see you getting two OZEV approved chargers installed for under £1100 without the grant. Those chargers have to have smart features so they are just more expensive to buy compared to a dumb charger.

The view being put forward is that the installer is pocketing the grant which there isn’t any evidence of that. If you want to install a cheaper ‘dumb’ non-OZEV charge point then yes you may get it cheaper but that isn’t what was being put forward so it wasn’t me moving the goal posts…
 
Getting back to the chargers, they are decent for the money, one of my customers had five of them installed at his business, two limited to 16A, and the other three at 32A. Most of his employees who have anything that needs plugging in are only on PHEV right now, but there are a couple of BEV's, he also had wiring put in for an additional four chargers but there are no parking spaces there yet!
 
IMm bei
Journey said:
Your just said you can't do it for less than £1099 + VAT which is what was behind asked about. ~£340 + VAT for two of these leaves £750 + VAT for the installation, which is easily doable.

You didn't mention any specific charger or anything else in your original statement.
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I'm being quoted 1800 + Vat for 2 x Black SYNC EV 7.4kW Charger. I have a voucher for 700 to take from that which seems to be applied after vat. So real cost to me is 1100 after vat back.

A quick search shows that charger is 500 plus Vat. So actually maybe i'm talking rubbish... its not actually that bad for a smart socket. The other route is "dumb" socket through local guy but to be fair thats a whole different ball game which no doubt could be cheaper so the real question should be do I need a smart socket long term.

Hmm, no doubt the contractor gets the socket for better money they I can but it seems my feelings were wrong and for a socket like this the grant is indeed working :)
 
peige said:
IMm bei


I'm being quoted 1800 + Vat for 2 x Black SYNC EV 7.4kW Charger. I have a voucher for 700 to take from that which seems to be applied after vat. So real cost to me is 1100 after vat back.

A quick search shows that charger is 500 plus Vat. So actually maybe i'm talking rubbish... its not actually that bad for a smart socket. The other route is "dumb" socket through local guy but to be fair thats a whole different ball game which no doubt could be cheaper so the real question should be do I need a smart socket long term.

Hmm, no doubt the contractor gets the socket for better money they I can but it seems my feelings were wrong and for a socket like this the grant is indeed working :)
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It is and it isnt. No way will it be costing £800 plus vat for them to install two chargers. Yes the £700 grant means you cant get somebody else to install them for £100 but that doesnt mean that its not keeping installation prices artificially high.

Its a pretty simple job and most chargers stipulate a certain distance and cabling clipped to a wall. Longer distance and groundworks are all extra costs.

This trend and the voucher scheme is making a lot of companies rich. Lots and lots of new small companies have been set up specialising in EV charger installs only.
 
Greebo said:
It is and it isnt. No way will it be costing £800 plus vat for them to install two chargers. Yes the £700 grant means you cant get somebody else to install them for £100 but that doesnt mean that its not keeping installation prices artificially high.

Its a pretty simple job and most chargers stipulate a certain distance and cabling clipped to a wall. Longer distance and groundworks are all extra costs.

This trend and the voucher scheme is making a lot of companies rich. Lots and lots of new small companies have been set up specialising in EV charger installs only.
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I just don’t know how you could honestly make that assertion without seeing the install site and the invoice breakdown. :confused:
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
I just don’t know how you could honestly make that assertion without seeing the install site and the invoice breakdown. :confused:
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All installers state in their terms and conditions that their fixed install price includes drilling one hole through a certain thickness of wall, 5m-10m of cabling clipped to the outside wall, spare RCD slot in customers fuseboard, suitable earthing.

Everything outside those things are extra and will be charged for. Pretty easy to see that its about an hours or two work and up to 10m of cabling and an RCD unit . So material costs will be around £50-60 max.

Leaves £300+ for labour.
 
peige said:
A quick search shows that charger is 500 plus Vat. So actually maybe i'm talking rubbish... its not actually that bad for a smart socket. The other route is "dumb" socket through local guy but to be fair thats a whole different ball game which no doubt could be cheaper so the real question should be do I need a smart socket long term.
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they've still go to install/qualify the wiring from the consumer unit - check rcd firing .... have they been on site for the quote ?
a smart charger doesn't abdicate conforming to wireing regulations, and costs.
if the a dumb socket & charger can meet your environment/useage, the - I could take it with me, or, upgrade, option, remains attractive to me

jpaul said:
good video which describes electrically, & shows you internally, what the ohme box does
... and alternatives - both dumbish , no app, and you just switch/shake between current options ... all you really need.

Aliexpress 32A (7kW) portable EV chargers ( EVSE ) Zencar, Khons
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lordrobs said:
Sounds like it is good for the economy then, which is surely the whole point?
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It is doing that granted, just like any government subsidy would in any industry My point still stands though, its tax payers money paying this subsidy. Without it then prices would be much more competitive but then less people would be getting boxes installed and there would be less companies doing it.

I am not going to complain and just about to order mine for home plus we are going to get some installed at work. Overall with the grant everybody is paying less.
 
Greebo said:
Overall with the grant everybody is paying less.
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Not really, as you say the tax payer is footing the bill so anyone who isn't having an EV charge point is technically paying more. Not that it makes any difference when the sum of taxation and government borrowing goes into the big treasury mixing bowl before being served up in various pots.

It will be interesting to see when the big push towards electric cars suddenly swaps to a push towards getting us out of cars entirely. The cynic in me predicts 2030 might be the phase shift.
 
lordrobs said:
It will be interesting to see when the big push towards electric cars suddenly swaps to a push towards getting us out of cars entirely. The cynic in me predicts 2030 might be the phase shift.
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I will be amazed if this gains any traction within my lifetime, and i am only 35. Driverless taxis on demand at a very low PPM pricepoint (possible when not paying a driver?) seem to be the only option here. This to me seems nearly on a par in terms of lolpredictions as the ones regarding flying cars (etc) by the year 2000 predictions from the 1950s.

What do i know, but i will genuinely be amazed if a driverless car can safely, very cheaply and routinely navigate to my property. (To the point that there are enough of them just sitting around that i could summons one within a reasonable timeframe as to not be inconvenient to "pop" somewhere at short notice). It'll need to negotiate single track lanes, reverse back to passing places when another comes the other way, pass over a couple of awkward little bridges, ensure that it doesnt wade too deeply after heavy rain etc, too. Is driverless tech anywhere near this?
 
Collected my Taycan Turbo yesterday, so far done 3 full charges out and about and worked really well.

Gave me a excuse to stop and actually get the laptop out and not have the panic when I get home.

 
Yup, i can’t see driverless cars taking off with those who can afford to use their car regularly unless they are punitively taxed off the roads or human drivers are banned.

When you look at how affordable cars are to buy and run anyway I can’t see anyone with a middle income or above giving theirs up in favour of a robo taxi. The convenience of opening your front door and getting in your own car that is already filled with your own stuff (shopping bags, car seats etc) is incredibly compelling. There is also the emotional side of ‘giving up your freedom’ to a corporate provider.

It’s not always about the economic argument.
 
Jez said:
I will be amazed if this gains any traction within my lifetime, and i am only 35. Driverless taxis on demand at a very low PPM pricepoint (possible when not paying a driver?) seem to be the only option here. This to me seems nearly on a par in terms of lolpredictions as the ones regarding flying cars (etc) by the year 2000 predictions from the 1950s.

What do i know, but i will genuinely be amazed if a driverless car can safely, very cheaply and routinely navigate to my property. (To the point that there are enough of them just sitting around that i could summons one within a reasonable timeframe as to not be inconvenient to "pop" somewhere at short notice). It'll need to negotiate single track lanes, reverse back to passing places when another comes the other way, pass over a couple of awkward little bridges, ensure that it doesnt wade too deeply after heavy rain etc, too. Is driverless tech anywhere near this?
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Absolutely. I don't think I'll see full driverless technology either.

I was more getting at the passive effect of larger pedestrian zones, removal/increased cost of parking, increased cost of ownership etc. The kind of stuff that may get a two car family wondering if they can make do without the second car, being a barrier to stopping college kids being able to afford their first car, getting workers to consider other forms of transport to get to work. That kind of stuff.
 
Talking of Taycan, I think this might be a perfect two-white-car garage? :D

E45yU00XIAE3nI3
 
Journey said:
Nice, glad you are enjoying it, but I'd imagine it is hard not to enjoy a car like that :D

I heard that the Taycan is Porsche's top selling car, and they can't make enough of them, did you wait long for yours?
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I was lucky that someone ordered my exact spec and then couldnt afford it, so I quickly got it, so only waited 3 months, however Porsche are currently stating 10-12month lead times.
 
Matutu said:
I was lucky that someone ordered my exact spec and then couldnt afford it, so I quickly got it, so only waited 3 months, however Porsche are currently stating 10-12month lead times.
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That was lucky. It's madness, I don't think Porsche expected it to be so popular given how some of their life long buyers are towards the propulsion method.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Yup, i can’t see driverless cars taking off with those who can afford to use their car regularly unless they are punitively taxed off the roads or human drivers are banned.

When you look at how affordable cars are to buy and run anyway I can’t see anyone with a middle income or above giving theirs up in favour of a robo taxi. The convenience of opening your front door and getting in your own car that is already filled with your own stuff (shopping bags, car seats etc) is incredibly compelling. There is also the emotional side of ‘giving up your freedom’ to a corporate provider.

It’s not always about the economic argument.
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Well the average cost per mile for running a car in the UK is 40p per mile. If you can "hire" a driverless car for 40p per mile or less then little point in owning your own car anymore.

Average cost is now £3000 per annum (mainly cause all the old bangers pulls down the average as depreciation is only £1104 per year - newer cars will be more than £1 per mile) . if you dont do many miles £3,000 pays for a lot of self drive "taxis". Newer cars will be closer to £10k per annum to run.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-cost-run-car-uk
 
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