EV general discussion

Ranger07 said:
When you look at the advances in technology in consumer electronics and computers, it probably wouldn't unthinkable that an EV could have a 1000 mile range in the next 10 years. At that point folks who worry about range anxiety would have no arguments against it.
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Unlikely given Li-Ion has been around for decades and it’s fundamentally the same tech as in a laptop computer.

Either way, the range issues was put to bed with 300+ real world miles and 1000mph recharging rates. Range anxiety should really be called recharge anxiety as that’s what it actually is most of the time. It’s not the fear of running out, it’s the fear of not being able to recharge.

As for 1000 range? Just why? You’ll be trawling round with a battery you’ll never use, make it 1/3 the size and you’ll get a much more affordable car to cover 99.9% of all journeys. The last 0.1% can just recharge during a lunch break!

Now decent offerings are hitting 300+ real miles range focus needs to be switched to availability, cost and recharge speed (in that order).
 
Terminal_Boy said:
And until there is a standardised battery pack specification forced upon manufacturers, EV owners will continue to have to plan for lengthy recharging stops on longer journeys.
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That really isn't going to work. The chassis / battery integration is key to the packaging of the cars and as different manufacturers have different chassis designs and requirements you aren't going to be able to fit a standardised fixed shape battery in.
 
But it will need to happen to drive down costs. A lot of petrol cars share the same parts across manufacturers. Engines aren't exactly the same but often are interchangable (engine swaps).
 
Nasher said:
But it will need to happen to drive down costs. A lot of petrol cars share the same parts across manufacturers. Engines aren't exactly the same but often are interchangable (engine swaps).
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No it won’t - ID3 will be the price parity car against an equivalent Golf diesel. The structural, system and proportions of the car are all the basis of the pack design and hence its critical to the car layout - no one would constrain their car based on an arbitrary pack. It would be over specified for some applications and under for others.
 
Also nothing stopping you making motors and power electronics common across cars. Likewise the vast majority of the battery pack will be common (e.g. cells, electronics, chargers etc.) just not the casing and the size of the pack.

I expect the 3 different sized packs in an ID3 will soon drop to what ever is most popular as cell availability increases and costs drop.
 
... but how would you slide them in and out

despite the earlier calculation on average 13(26) miles per day commute, and being able to recoup that with an overnight charge,
for those without that option, unless the charging infrastructure is much larger than that of current petrol stations, can't but think
there won't be queues at the charging stations ... seems a bit chicken and egg.

Electric vehicle charging and uptake data from the various metropolitan areas within each country show approximate patterns. Oslo and Bergen, the two major metropolitan areas in Norway, are labeled. These two, with about one-third of all new vehicle sales being plug-in electric vehicles, have the highest uptake, and they each show a relationship of about 14 to 17 electric vehicles per public charger. The markets in the Netherlands tend to have a lower ratio of electric vehicles per charge point, at 3 to 6

electric vehicles per charger for the three largest electric vehicle markets, Amsterdam, Utrecht, and The Hague. This could be due to the relatively low rate of private garage ownership in these markets (see below). In contrast, the large California markets tend to lie above the other cities with a higher vehicle/charge point ratio, approximately 25 to 30 electric vehicles per charge point. This could be due to greater access to private home charging, as well as workplace charging in northern California. The major China markets had a range of 3 to 11 electric vehicles per charge point. Over all markets considered in this study, we find an average of approximately 7 electric cars per public charge point. Given the wide variation observed across the markets, including the successful high-uptake markets, it seems clear that this average ratio does not represent a consistent or universal metric for assessing the maturity of local electric vehicle markets. We further examine this ratio of electric vehicles per charge point, along with factors such as city housing type and population density, below.
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https://theicct.org/sites/default/f...st-practices_ICCT-white-paper_04102017_vF.pdf
 
Nasher said:
The battery packs could be removable modules which are standard. Like you know...batteries :p
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Removable modular batteries = smaller pack sizes. Pretty much the main reason they no longer exist in smartphones and slim laptops.

Good luck swapping 75kwh of battery modules (at least 500kg)....hell good luck swapping a individual 10kwh module (at least 70kg), then do it 7 times in a row....
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Removable modular batteries = smaller pack sizes. Pretty much the main reason they no longer exist in smartphones and slim laptops.

Good luck swapping 75kwh of battery modules (at least 500kg)....hell good luck swapping a individual 10kwh module (at least 70kg), then do it 7 times in a row....
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Lol phone batteries have not got bigger, they just want to you pay them to change it. Like Apple have always done.

Obviously you wouldn't change them out by hand :/
 
jpaul said:
... but how would you slide them in and out

despite the earlier calculation on average 13(26) miles per day commute, and being able to recoup that with an overnight charge,
for those without that option, unless the charging infrastructure is much larger than that of current petrol stations, can't but think
there won't be queues at the charging stations ... seems a bit chicken and egg.


https://theicct.org/sites/default/f...st-practices_ICCT-white-paper_04102017_vF.pdf
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There is virtually no limit on charging points, i mean the vast majority of car parking spots could be enabled

I think its only a matter of time before you start seeing them at supermarkets

Charging points have a fraction of the issues in regards placement compared to fuel stations
 
Journey said:
Plenty at supermarkets already, with some big names like Tesco having significant numbers of 7kW chargers which are free to use while shopping. The plan is to have 2500 in 600 stores by 2020.
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Ok hadnt seen them, not at mine yet. :)

Its super logical though, its a selling point for them, no diff to running a petrol station and giving money off fuel to get people in.

I forsee a future where charging is everywhere practically.
 
https://www.transport-network.co.uk/London-releases-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-plan/15942
London has around 20,000 electric vehicles, 1,700 electric taxis and Europe’s largest electric bus fleet * and future expansion builds on TfL’s successful roll-out of over 175 rapid charge points across the city (delivering a full charge in 20 - 30 minutes) and a growing network of over 1,100 lamp post charging points delivered by boroughs in residential areas.
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(probably a credit to Boris!) so London has about a ratio 1 charger for 60 ev's 20K/ (175+1100*7Kw/50Kw) considering rapid/50kw as a baseline and lamp-post as 7kW

[* earlier post about chinas buses ]
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Unlikely given Li-Ion has been around for decades and it’s fundamentally the same tech as in a laptop computer.

Either way, the range issues was put to bed with 300+ real world miles and 1000mph recharging rates. Range anxiety should really be called recharge anxiety as that’s what it actually is most of the time. It’s not the fear of running out, it’s the fear of not being able to recharge.

As for 1000 range? Just why? You’ll be trawling round with a battery you’ll never use, make it 1/3 the size and you’ll get a much more affordable car to cover 99.9% of all journeys. The last 0.1% can just recharge during a lunch break!

Now decent offerings are hitting 300+ real miles range focus needs to be switched to availability, cost and recharge speed (in that order).
Click to expand...

I’m an advocate of long ranges, but even for me 1000miles is just ridiculous. I think 600 miles will probably be the maximum*, but only in certain vehicles. Those would be high performance super cars (Ferrari’s etc - like the Roadster, a byproduct of performance requirements) and an optional long range pack for those wanting to tow long distances in certain large vehicles in Europe. Most vehicles will probably top out in the 300-400 mile range, and smaller town cars will be around 200.

North America will have more 600 mile cars (most pickups will probably have it as an option) but the average car will also have 300-400 miles of range. Coincidentally these are broadly the ranges most similar ICE vehicles get now.

As you say, a greater availability of chargers will certainly help, especially in more rural areas. That added to an increase in charging speed will most definitely help. If you know you can fill up at 350kWh almost anywhere then suddenly the worry of charging is largely gone.

*Unless we get a step change in tech some time in the future
 
robfosters said:
When I can go from Lands end to John o’groats on one charge.
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.. and back again while towing a horse box!

The Cirencester Tesco Extra has just installed 4 Pod Point charging bays right outside the entrance all marked up with signs so no hiding your EV there!

It's a nice addition and I'll have to double check but should be free though only fast charging (7 kw) at this particular site. Not so useful for me as I live so close but there's been a bit of a gap around this immediate area with only one totally unreliable rapid charger maintained by the local council so no surprises there. I never managed to get my previous i3 to charge at it in over a year.
 
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