EV general discussion

[PCM2]

Towing with the Tesla model X and 3 seems fine?

Users say they're far better to tow with than any ICE car due to the torque, plus as they have a nice big battery pack low down they make for an amazingly stable towing platform

The Model 3 also, notably, has a Tow Hitch as a factory option. It's certainly designed to Tow (up to 910kg).

 

[Nasher]

It will have to be a very small horse then.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Living in a very horsey area, (relatively close to newmarket, which I often drive to/around) i cannot think of a single time I have ever seen a model 3 equivalent vehicle pulling a horse box.

The vast vast majority of them use something like a discovery as they tend to need it for other reasons as well, (shifting other horsey related items)

 

[jpaul]

Scottish power represenative on Today 7am this morning ... they think we need 25e6 (7K) chargers for the uk, one for every 1.7cars, so should be installing at 4000/day to attain the zero emmisions @2050, and give consumer confidence that an electric car could be refuelled/used as needed. ... so Greta will be disappointed
... it's like smart meter deployment ... or, electric heat pumps replacing gas.

 

[Nasher]

Hopefully not as big of a farce as "smart" meters...

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I assume they don’t mean public chargers? But just chargers in general.

A 7kw charger per 1.7 cars seems incredibly high compared to how long the average person actually needs to plug in. I can see how there would be a high ratio for those who have their own off street parking but that would be quickly offset by those who don’t and share public plugs.

Would be interesting to see their methodology. I wonder if they accounted for increased car/ride sharing in big cities.

 

[jpaul]

Scottish power represenative on Today 7am this morning

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0009jhk 1:20

may have been part sourced from this https://www.scottishpower.com/news/pages/liverpools_net_zero_pathway_revealed.aspx
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../attachment_data/file/739460/road-to-zero.pdf

Key Liverpool City Region targets on the path to Net Zero by 2040

• Number of electric vehicle charging points needed by 2040: 585,340
• Number of these which will be installed in public places: 47,711
• Estimated cost to install chargers across the Liverpool City Region: £890 million
• Number of homes that will install heat pumps by 2040: 547,459
• Estimated cost of installing these heat pumps: £4.9 billion
• Estimated network reinforcement cost by 2040: £1.4 billion*
• Estimated jobs supported by decarbonisation investment: 12,466

..45 public/week

that links

The End of Individual Car Ownership
By 2030, within 10 years of regulatory approval of fully autonomous vehicles, 95% of all U.S. passenger miles will be served by transport-asa-service (TaaS) providers who will own and operate fleets of autonomous electric vehicles providing passengers with higher levels of service, faster rides and vastly increased safety at a cost up to 10 times cheaper than today’s individually owned (IO) vehicles. These fleets will include a wide variety of vehicle types, sizes and configurations that meet every kind of consumer need, from driving children to hauling equipment. The TaaS disruption will be driven by economics. The average American family will save more than $5,600 per year in transportation costs, equivalent to a wage raise of 10%. As a result, Americans will keep an extra $1 trillion in their pockets, potentially generating the largest infusion of consumer spending in history

need to buy some waymo shares, could be a money spinner

... good reading, whilst sitting at the supercharger.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Its a good point, for the majority of people owning a car its spends well over 90% of the time doing nothing.

What would be awesome would be if it operated a bit like HGVs where you have the rig and the trailer. Or in fact actually more like a horse and carriage.
The horse (the engine, batteries etc) could turn up and "hitch" to your cabin. As you would own your cabin you would have it personalised to your spec, so could be an apple cabin or a bentley cabin etc
Avoids all the stuff like the previous person wetting the seat or something that you would risk with public EVs

Very challenging but equally awesome, so would be like semi ownership, allowing the potentially problematic part to be mass available and highly utilised, but the cabin part to be pretty much as you wanted internally, your paint job etc.
Actually solves the range issue as well, as you could pull into a service stop and switch "horse" and off you go again, which is exactly what could happen at coaching inns for urgents. No need to change the batteries, change the whole drivetrain!

 

[Nasher]

Problem is you also need to leave it on trickle charge when it's not being used, or it will slowly go flat (like a battery in a ICE car). Plus it powers things like the alarm etc.

At the moment it's one charging point to one car which is why they need so many. If they could split it, it would be a lot easier to cover everyone.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Thats an interesting point, I wonder what sort of rate of discharge the average Ev suffers from

 

[Nasher]

Thats an interesting point, I wonder what sort of rate of discharge the average Ev suffers from

Dunno but my car's alarm system alone (keyless, which uses more power) will drain the stock battery in about 3 weeks if it isn't used :/

 

[sovietspybob]

Living in a very horsey area, (relatively close to newmarket, which I often drive to/around) i cannot think of a single time I have ever seen a model 3 equivalent vehicle pulling a horse box.

The vast vast majority of them use something like a discovery as they tend to need it for other reasons as well, (shifting other horsey related items)

That's why you'd use a Model X which can tow 2250KG which is far more equivalent of the stuff the horsey crowd usually drive

 

[jamoor]

12th November apparently

 

[Matthew.M]

Problem is you also need to leave it on trickle charge when it's not being used, or it will slowly go flat (like a battery in a ICE car). Plus it powers things like the alarm etc.

At the moment it's one charging point to one car which is why they need so many. If they could split it, it would be a lot easier to cover everyone.

Nah, it’s no different to leaving a petrol car parked up for months and you don’t see all these being constantly charged in car parks. There is a separate 12v traditional battery to power the alarm etc so the concern is no different from any other car.

The high voltage battery is disconnected when the car is powered down. In my i3 you can hear the relay click to life when it’s started. I’ve previously left it for weeks when I was abroad and didn’t even lose 0.5% from the traction battery. To “start” it after a long period being parked all you need is enough 12v power to engage the high voltage relay and then it can start recharging the 12v from the main battery. They’re completely disconnected otherwise.

The notable exception to this is Tesla. Things like sentry mode draw a constant amount from the main battery so these do lose power when parked, but I’ve never heard of it in any other EV.

If the 12v does go flat you can jump start it like any other car and the main battery will still at the charge you left it, subject to things like losing a few % from a significant drop in temperature etc.

 

[mjt]

2016 BMW i3 60Ah. What do I need to know? 1 owner FBMWSH & warranty, etc.

My commute is around 11 miles of A road and 20-30mph town driving. Usually takes 25-35 minutes. I can charge the car at work and in my garage from a normal socket. Takes 6 hrs for a full change apparently?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Problem is you also need to leave it on trickle charge when it's not being used, or it will slowly go flat (like a battery in a ICE car). Plus it powers things like the alarm etc.

At the moment it's one charging point to one car which is why they need so many. If they could split it, it would be a lot easier to cover everyone.

the HV system is only “hot” when the car is live. Once shutdown the contactors are open for safety and to avoid drain - the only load is self discharge. Even 48V systems do this when the car is locked.

The 12V systems are supplied by the 12V battery and manage the quiescent loads. The first Tesla roadster didn’t do this and some HV batteries were bricked, much more of a problem than jumping/replacing a 12V battery.

guess that’s me not “contributing” again?

 

[Nasher]

But that doesn't change anything lol. It will still go completely flat if you just left it. There is no way to prevent it without putting more energy in to it...

 

[b0rn2sk8]

No it won't, I don't know how many times you can be wrong in a single thread.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries

There is virtually no self-discharge below about 4.0V at 20C (68F); storing at 3.7V yields amazing longevity for most Li-ion systems.

E.G. They can be stored for years.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

But that doesn't change anything lol. It will still go completely flat if you just left it. There is no way to prevent it without putting more energy in to it...

i imagine it has even more energy remaining than what ever powers your guessing machine.

 

[Journey]

I assume they don’t mean public chargers? But just chargers in general.

A 7kw charger per 1.7 cars seems incredibly high compared to how long the average person actually needs to plug in. I can see how there would be a high ratio for those who have their own off street parking but that would be quickly offset by those who don’t and share public plugs.

Would be interesting to see their methodology. I wonder if they accounted for increased car/ride sharing in big cities.

I have to say I actually think we'll end up with more charge points than cars, especially the lower capability ones at 7kW types.

If you consider that every home with off-street parking and/or a garage can have one easily fitted for a low(ish) cost, and in 2010 from a total of 22.4 million dwellings, 40% of dwellings had use of a garage, 26% had other off street parking available, so around 14.8 million dwellings could easily have one fitted, that takes care of the 'majority'.
Then if you add in all of the works places that will add charging points in, which is where a huge majority of cars will end up every day, you could probably add 50% of that figure again if not more.
The all of the shopping centres, supermarkets and places where people take their cars, leisure centres, gyms, hotels, pubs, and a whole host of leisure based places you quickly reach a massive number of chargers that will be there when people need them, even if it is only 15 minutes, but could easily be 4 hours.

Little and often will be the winner for those without the capability of charging at home, some at work (most tbh), some when doing the weekly shop (if they do it online then no), some when they go to the gym, some when the pop over to their mates on a Friday night, some when they go to the cinema, or if they go out to a pub/restaurant.

Companies will be using the incentive of free/cheap charging for customers to visit, be that a local NCP who strikes a deal with Polar etc. Or Sainsbury's who'll give you free charging for 2 hours if you swipe your Nectar card, and then swipe it again at the end of your shop to show you were actually parked for shopping not just for the free leccy. Or just the standard council car park who maybe did some sort of deal with a local business or sponsor to get you free charging. All of these places will add charge point, after charge point and before you know if there will be more than you can count.