EV general discussion

ICDP said:
Have you booked it already? My I-Pace is a lease and is coming up to a two year service in May. I will be booking many months in advance for the service.
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i have phoned my local dealer twice already, both times they told me they would call back in a few days, which hasnt happened.

maybe i should swing by their showroom and refuse to leave untill i see someone and make a song and dance in front of new prospective purchasers ;)
 
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I think high insurance costs are worse everywhere, but Tesla's are particularly bad.

There's so many around now that ironically there is a parts shortage and they aren't built like a lot of cars are, with cheaper plastic bits to take the small impacts.

If you own a Tesla, you’ll know already that the cost of insuring it can be eye-wateringly high. A Model Y sits in Group 50 – which is the highest possible. To put that into perspective, a Porsche 911 sits in Group 46 while a Hyundai IONIQ 5 Ultimate with the same performance as a Model Y sits in Group 39.

Why is the Y so high? There are a five big reasons:

1. Security:​

Thatcham, the organisation that sets the UK’s insurance groups, doesn't like Tesla’s security systems and gets very nervous about the smartphone and card key situation, thinking it makes the car easier to steal. As a result, they bump up the grouping which means you pay more

2: Speed:​

Even a standard Model 3 can accelerate faster than a 1990s Ferrari, and this is a risk for new and inexperienced drivers. One broker we spoke to said: “We see a lot of accidents in the first two weeks of Tesla ownership. This is partly because people aren’t used to the instant acceleration, but I suspect some drivers like to show off what their new car can do and simple come unstuck.”

3: Poor design:​

Cars have bumpers so they can shrug off the odd parking knock. But not on a Tesla. Look at the back of a Model Y and you’ll see that the bit that sticks out the furthest is the metal tailgate and not the plastic bumper like it is on any other car. Which means that even the tiniest of knocks will dent your and expensive and complicated panel rather than a deformable piece of plastic.

4: Parts supply:​

If you do bump your Tesla, some parts to repair it are in short supply. Owners report having to wait months for certain components which are needed to complete a repair after even the smallest bump.

Besides the inconvenience, it means you’ll expect a nice courtesy car while you wait. And that means the cost of the claim will be thousands and thousands as the hire car fees add up. Insurance companies hate that, so make you pay more for your premium.
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It’s interesting they point to security being an issue considering how common the car is and how few have been stolen without the keys. As far I’m aware there have been zero reported incidents of any Model 3 and Y being stolen without the keys in the UK or anywhere.

It would seem their phone key and card system is pretty secure and it seems ‘odd’ to price in a premium for this when it’s not actually an issue. Particularly when there are other security features which you can enable such as requiring a PIN code to drive the car. Unlike many cars which can still be relay attacked very easily and are being stolen daily in the U.K.

For #3 more and more vehicles are being designed in this way due to aero dynamics. Tesla is not unique in that regard to having a protruding boot lip to detach the air coming over the car, from the car. Take a look at the side profile of a a Kia EV6, it’s the same with the boot lip being the most exposed point. That said, insurance is lower on a Model 3 which doesn’t have the protruding lip so it could well be priced in.

I’d be surprised if huge motorised charging flaps don’t start becoming an insurance issue. It never used to be an issue on ICE cars, you’d only have them open for a few miles while you fill up. Some EVs have massive flaps on the sides or corners of the car which can be easily caught on someone walking past and broken off. They are of course sat open for hours while charging and are very vulnerable and expensive to repair.

There is no denying 2 and 4, both are issues and driving standards are shocking, combining that with someone going from having 110-150hp to 400+, it’s bound to cause accidents.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s interesting they point to security being an issue considering how common the car is and how few have been stolen without the keys. As far I’m aware there have been zero reported incidents of any Model 3 and Y being stolen without the keys in the UK or anywhere.

It would seem their phone key and card system is pretty secure and it seems ‘odd’ to price in a premium for this when it’s not actually an issue. Particularly when there are other security features which you can enable such as requiring a PIN code to drive the car. Unlike many cars which can still be relay attacked very easily and are being stolen daily in the U.K.

For #3 more and more vehicles are being designed in this way due to aero dynamics. Tesla is not unique in that regard to having a protruding boot lip to detach the air coming over the car, from the car. Take a look at the side profile of a a Kia EV6, it’s the same with the boot lip being the most exposed point. That said, insurance is lower on a Model 3 which doesn’t have the protruding lip so it could well be priced in.

I’d be surprised if huge motorised charging flaps don’t start becoming an insurance issue. It never used to be an issue on ICE cars, you’d only have them open for a few miles while you fill up. Some EVs have massive flaps on the sides or corners of the car which can be easily caught on someone walking past and broken off. They are of course sat open for hours while charging and are very vulnerable and expensive to repair.

There is no denying 2 and 4, both are issues and driving standards are shocking, combining that with someone going from having 110-150hp to 400+, it’s bound to cause accidents.
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It reads more like Thatcham can't make an alarm to fit into the tesla, software wise.
 
Haggisman said:
Go on then, enlighten us?
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You could most likely count the amount of places that can repair a Tesla in this country on one hand which is expensive.

Also the nature of EV's means they are easily written off.

Both of those mean insurance premiums go up because of the cost involved with an accident.

Then when a Tesla costs you 2k to insure and a BMW 3 series 300 quid it does make you wonder what you are doing.
 
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adam cool dude said:
You could most likely count the amount of places that can repair a Tesla in this country on one hand.
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Maybe, but there are way more non-Tesla EV's sold every month in the UK than Tesla's. So why are they also seeing huge premiums?

adam cool dude said:
Also the nature of EV's means they are easily written off.
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What does that even mean?
 
Why do they need access to software to test a security system, why are you suggesting this is a unique thing? Thatcham are the body who determine the Uk insurance ratings.

Basically Tesla make more cars than their aftermarket/service/parts network can facilitate. It’s where #legacyauto excel.
 
Are there any 7 seater EVs about that are decent?
What are people generally paying per month for leasing a "Mondeo" equivalent EV these days?
Are we still a few years off for Joe Public to start considering EVs?

There are maybe 2 or 3 EVs down my road of about 50 houses.
 
jaybee said:
Are there any 7 seater EVs about that are decent?
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At the moment, probably not unless you have £70k to chuck at the problem for an I.D. Buzz. The Kia EV9 is a 7 seater isn't it? Either way still not much change from £70k either (base model).

Tesla Model X can be 7 seater although most are 6 (better layout IMO) and have been around for a while but its still an expensive car. You can get a Merc 'van' with 7 seats as well, again not cheap.
jaybee said:
What are people generally paying per month for leasing a "Mondeo" equivalent EV these days?
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No one really makes a 'Mondeo' anymore, that form factor is going by the way of the dodo. The closest you have is a Model 3 or a Hyundai Ionic 6, both of which are a step up from what you would have found in a Mondeo but neither is as big or have a hatch back.

There are loads of what we would call the new 'Mondeo's' kicking around being the mid to large crossover/SUV's. Take your pick of those, pretty much every manufacturer has one. They all start at £40k+ for a new one so leasing isn't exactly 'cheap' unless its via salary sacrifice or a full company car scheme.
jaybee said:
There are maybe 2 or 3 EVs down my road of about 50 houses.
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Sounds about right, of the cars sold in the last 3 years, only 10-20% were electric. How many of them have cars under 3 years old? If its ~10, you'd expect 2 to be fully electric.
 
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Nathan said:
There are videos on TikTok of teslas being stolen with simple relay devices…(keyless)
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That would be Model S and X which uses normal key fobs which you'd find in every other car and are vulnerable to relay attacks. Although this was largely patched out with replacement keys with better security and the pin to drive update (if the owner enables it).

I was talking about the much more common 3 and Y which don't use normal key fobs. They instead use a Bluetooth phone key or an RFID card which is essentially the same as a contactless bank card. There is an optional Bluetooth fob you can get but very few actually buy it.
 
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adam cool dude said:
You could most likely count the amount of places that can repair a Tesla in this country on one hand which is expensive.
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believe tesla have started their own crash repair centres in the USA to counteract this problem ... and if the insurance is with them too, probably an efficient solution for owners,
plus you can lease the car from them $400/m 36month 10K miles deals in 3s/Y's would be popular here.
 
adam cool dude said:
You could most likely count the amount of places that can repair a Tesla in this country on one hand which is expensive.
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As @Journey says, what's that got to do with the cost of other EVs?

adam cool dude said:
Also the nature of EV's means they are easily written off.
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"The nature of EVs"? Elaborate please?

adam cool dude said:
Both of those mean insurance premiums go up because of the cost involved with an accident.
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They would if either of them actually made any sense.
 
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