EV general discussion

bigmike20vt · 19 Oct 2023 at 23:30

much of the above has some logic to it. what doesn't make sense is why now?

my ipace cost me £525ish to insure in June, a group 50 reasonable performance car worth 35k

hypothetically what has changed in the last few months to justify the percentage increases people are seeing ?

Jonnycoupe · 19 Oct 2023 at 23:51

chatGPT please make up something about car repair costs that’s not relevant to existing OEMs…

jpaul said:
expertise for repairing ev's from any manufacturer is limited/in it's infancy - pushing insurance costs

Rubbish. It’s fundamentally the same parts that make up the “basket” for a typical insure claim.

Participant · 20 Oct 2023 at 07:37

jpaul said:
plus you can lease the car from them $400/m 36month 10K miles deals in 3s/Y's would be popular here.

I would be all over that for a 3 or Y if it was available in this country via salary sacrifice. They're more like £650 per month here (from net pay)!

b0rn2sk8 · 20 Oct 2023 at 07:55

They have a $7500 government incentive. If we had that, the standard range (which is as much range as most people really need as an only car) would retail for £33k.

£33k doesn’t get you a lot in ICE world these days. The model 3 also has 300hp to sweeten the deal.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Oct 2023 at 07:58

We don’t need to subsidise EV take up more than than we do already. So thats a bit of a whataboutism for me

b0rn2sk8 · 20 Oct 2023 at 08:03

Jonnycoupe said:
We don’t need to subsidise EV take up more than than we do already. So thats a bit of a whataboutism for me

I don’t disagree. EVs in the US have gotten a bit ‘too cheap’ with their crazy incentives, even with their low fuel prices.

Not only that their are additional state level incentives as well, you can get a Model 3 in some places for less than £30k.

I dread to think how much it’s costing the US government (inc state level funding). All that money is being funnelled into people who don’t really need it, they are buying a brand new car at the end of the day.

Hawk Tuah · 20 Oct 2023 at 08:17

jaybee said:
Are there any 7 seater EVs about that are decent?
What are people generally paying per month for leasing a "Mondeo" equivalent EV these days?
Are we still a few years off for Joe Public to start considering EVs?

There are maybe 2 or 3 EVs down my road of about 50 houses.

Your mondeo equivalent is likely now a Skoda Enyak.

Not a 7 seater though.

Hawk Tuah · 20 Oct 2023 at 08:18

Maybe I got lucky, but insurance on the Leaf didn't go up.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Oct 2023 at 08:18

It’s that end of year faff for the IRS with the tax rebate as well as certain criteria rather than a pure 7.5k discount too.

Nasher · 20 Oct 2023 at 08:45

jpaul said:
expertise for repairing ev's from any manufacturer is limited/in it's infancy - pushing insurance costs

It doesn't help when they use carbon fibre body parts, like the i3 did. CF is ******* expensive. Many use aluminium too to help reduce weight, which is also expensive to repair.

Everyone is cautious about handling damaged EVs, especially when there is a chance the batteries took a knock. So premiums for them are only going to keep rising for now.

What's also needed is an incentive to buy used EVs. They are still overpriced and many sit on forecourts for months. Trust in aged batteries is low so prices need to reflect that too.

Journey · 20 Oct 2023 at 09:09

Just going leave this here for the resident BEV/Car sales/Used Car Market/etc. expert.

Used EV prices bottom out as bargains tempt buyers | Autocar

Modest rise in the values of budget models gives hope to traders

www.autocar.co.uk

Here's a non-paywalled version if you don't have the correct extensions. Link.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Oct 2023 at 09:28

Nasher said:
It doesn't help when they use carbon fibre body parts, like the i3 did. CF is ******* expensive. Many use aluminium too to help reduce weight, which is also expensive to repair.

Everyone is cautious about handling damaged EVs, especially when there is a chance the batteries took a knock. So premiums for them are only going to keep rising for now.

What's also needed is an incentive to buy used EVs. They are still overpriced and many sit on forecourts for months. Trust in aged batteries is low so prices need to reflect that too.

Literally one car of the many uses CF so its far from typical.

b0rn2sk8 · 20 Oct 2023 at 09:31

Journey said:
Just going leave this here for the resident BEV/Car sales/Used Car Market/etc. expert.

Used EV prices bottom out as bargains tempt buyers | Autocar

Modest rise in the values of budget models gives hope to traders

www.autocar.co.uk

Here's a non-paywalled version if you don't have the correct extensions. Link.

I mentioned it in the ‘should I get a diesel’ thread.

You can get a 22 plate (yup 1 year old) Renault Zoe 50kwh with CCS for well under £15k now. I think I saw some for £13.5k before I got bored scrolling to cheaper offers.

Utter bargain IMO.

Jonnycoupe said:
Literally one car of the many uses CF so its far from typical.

They are great little cars though. They are really resistant to door dings and minor dents because it flexes when impacted. A lot of older i3 cars are in really good nick because of this.

Simon · 20 Oct 2023 at 09:31

Jonnycoupe said:
Literally one car of the many uses CF so its far from typical.

More ICE use carbon fibre than EV too. Nashing at straws

Nasher · 20 Oct 2023 at 09:48

b0rn2sk8 said:
I mentioned it in the ‘should I get a diesel’ thread.

You can get a 22 plate (yup 1 year old) Renault Zoe 50kwh with CCS for well under £15k now. I think I saw some for £13.5k before I got bored scrolling to cheaper offers.

Utter bargain IMO.

They are great little cars though. They are really resistant to door dings and minor dents because it flexes when impacted. A lot of older i3 cars are in really good nick because of this.

Composite bodied cars won't ding, if you hit them really hard they might crack. But I've seen an instance where someone flung open a regular car door in to the side of a TVR (fiberglass) and it bent the edge of the metal door with no damage to the TVR.

Many EVs use aluminium though and that dents easily, with little hope of just pushing it out again (unlike steel) as it stretches. It's also very difficult to weld.

Simon · 20 Oct 2023 at 09:50

Was it made of foil

Jonnycoupe · 20 Oct 2023 at 09:58

Non of the i3 A surface parts are carbon fibre.

bigmike20vt · 20 Oct 2023 at 10:57

b0rn2sk8 said:
They are great little cars though. They are really resistant to door dings and minor dents because it flexes when impacted. A lot of older i3 cars are in really good nick because of this.

in truth I do not know what we will replace our 2nd car with. it only needs to be small and a 100 Mile absolute worse case scenario range is ok. there are a number of options many already mentioned in this thread (the BYD seagul looks promising too not that we will get the Chinese £8000 price).

but the i3 will surely be on the short list. my mate had one and it's a fab car.

jpaul · 20 Oct 2023 at 11:48

Nasher said:
Many EVs use aluminium though and that dents easily, with little hope of just pushing it out again (unlike steel) as it stretches. It's also very difficult to weld.

agree it's the gigapress chassis elements on tesla, and soon, vw, that have this reputation ...
but, the teslas are real light, maybe helped by that, so they have potential for better handling - can't have your cake....

Nasher · 20 Oct 2023 at 11:59

jpaul said:
agree it's the gigapress chassis elements on tesla, and soon, vw, that have this reputation ...
but, the teslas are real light, maybe helped by that, so they have potential for better handling - can't have your cake....

They aren't light :/

LightER than they would be being steel. Another issue with alu is galvanic corrosion if it's close to steel parts. That isn't something most will fix. Often suspension parts will be steel and the chassis alu, so that's an area to watch.