EV general discussion

[Kill_Phil]

Evening, I was meant to be test driving an I-Pace tomorrow, but just found out that my current insurer won’t insure it. And the comparison sites are putting out some high numbers. 3x what I currently pay for an Alfa Giulietta.
Are there any insurers that specialise in electric vehicles?

Not really, as above posted limited part availability plus long lead time on repairs has put premiums up across the whole board but more so for EVs.

It's a pita when you have to start choosing a car based on the insurance premium... Run a few quotes for diff models e.g enyaq, polestar 2, q4 etc

 

[Nathan]

I did a valuation of my Leaf yesterday. £2200 - £2500.

They've literally dropped like stones. Definitely bargain shed prices / first car territory now.

Just sold our trusty leaf for 4800. 2016 Acenta 24KW with 11 bars at 63k. I only paid 5k for it 3 years ago, brilliant.

Upgraded to an i3 which to be honest…feels like a downgrade interior wise.

Will probably change it for a mk2 leaf e+ next summer. We still use the ID4 for most journeys.

 

[Haggisman]

Not really, as above posted limited part availability plus long lead time on repairs has put premiums up across the whole board but more so for EVs.

It's a pita when you have to start choosing a car based on the insurance premium... Run a few quotes for diff models e.g enyaq, polestar 2, q4 etc

Exactly - it's the kind of thing you expect when you're 18 buying your first beaten up old banger, not when you're shopping for a sensible family car in your 40s with 20+ years of claim free driving experience

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Pretty sure I am in the majority - as a private purchaser I'll wait until it's economic/attractive to get one - few friends&neighbours have them,

e: afterthought haven't driven an suv either , have driven a transit though

The majority are not posting hundreds of posts with an air of authority/condescending tone theor posts. Asking questions and making statements at the same time giving the impression you have real world experience.

So no. You are a talker not walker. Frequently I post and I know I’m writing what the majority are thinking about your inputs.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Evening, I was meant to be test driving an I-Pace tomorrow, but just found out that my current insurer won’t insure it. And the comparison sites are putting out some high numbers. 3x what I currently pay for an Alfa Giulietta.
Are there any insurers that specialise in electric vehicles?

Admiral insure my I-pace... its a multi car policy and obviously your age, driving history and postcode will radically change the equation but i am only paying around 525 quid, protected NCB with....... £350 i think excess.

my policy started in June this year. What they will charge for renewal however i dunno.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Good to see prices cratering.

When there's an EV under 5k that has 200 miles plus range? That's when I'll think about it!

the problem is the value in the battery alone will make that a challenge....... i am not saying it will never happen, but i doubt it would any time soon (or if it did i would question just how knackered the car would be).

even end of the cars life, a battery capable of 200 miles of range will likely have significant value for 2nd life electricity storage so its not like when you scrap an old banger for £50.

 

[Southy_]

Test drove an MG ZS EV yesterday, it was my first EV driving experience.
I was shocked at how nice it was not only to drive but also the interior, a really nice car, especially considering the price.

The thing that shocked me was how much braking was possible with the ERS, I had seen people talk about it, but experiencing it was really interesting, I can see why long term EV owners talk about rarely needing new pads and discs.

Getting a PCP quote I was struck by how competetive the salary sacrafice leasing schemes are, the monthly PCP payments are the same as the leasing, but the leasing includes insurance, servicing, repairs and even tyres. While still offering options to purchase at the end.

 

[chanjy]

Admiral insure my I-pace... its a multi car policy and obviously your age, driving history and postcode will radically change the equation but i am only paying around 525 quid, protected NCB with....... £350 i think excess.

my policy started in June this year. What they will charge for renewal however i dunno.

Admiral here too and about the same price. I switched over from a 2L diesel Volvo estate and it only added £50 or so a year but no idea what it will be at renewal time.

 

[Nasher]

the problem is the value in the battery alone will make that a challenge....... i am not saying it will never happen, but i doubt it would any time soon (or if it did i would question just how knackered the car would be).

even end of the cars life, a battery capable of 200 miles of range will likely have significant value for 2nd life electricity storage so its not like when you scrap an old banger for £50.

But you won't get much for an end of life or dead EV. No one is going to pay you for the old batteries and who would you even contact to sell them. A scrappy might get something but not Joe public.

 

[jpaul]

The majority are not posting hundreds of posts with an air of authority/condescending tone theor posts. Asking questions and making statements at the same time giving the impression you have real world experience.

So no. You are a talker not walker. Frequently I post and I know I’m writing what the majority are thinking about your inputs.

you've obviously not worked with a group of electronic engineers - you don't discuss football at lunch time, or netflix shows - physics is physics.

 

[bigmike20vt]

But you won't get much for an end of life or dead EV. No one is going to pay you for the old batteries and who would you even contact to sell them. A scrappy might get something but not Joe public.

it is hard to say because so few EVs have got to that point yet (and those that have are probably the launch nissan leafs which are probably the one example of an EV which does have more battery degredation than most.

however i am not sure how you can be so confident on that they will be worth nothing...... perhaps the infrastructure needs to be put in place but those batteries in say 2015 ionics or what ever wont be going into land fill, or even being smashed up for recyling.... they will in the majority of cases be going on elsewhere as they will still have a value and use.

and why am i confident on that? perhaps i am naive but i dont think so. I think battery reuse of a battery which has outlasted the car is essential.

Hell.......... IF no one will offer anything for my old EV car battery i will use it myself

The EASIEST way to connect used EV packs to grid!

For more info on how to connect a LEAF battery to a BYD compatible inverter: https://github.com/dalathegreat/BYD-Battery-Emulator-For-Gen24Massive thanks to ...

www.youtube.com

 

[Simon]

you've obviously not worked with a group of electronic engineers - you don't discuss football at lunch time, or netflix shows - physics is physics.

Well most football fans I see probably can’t even kick a ball but also think they are experts so it kind of figures

 

[adam cool dude]

Cheapest (non cat) diesel Fiesta with comparable age and mileage on Autotrader is £9.7k, you'll have to forgive me if my calculations are wrong, but that's more than £8.5k isn't it

Also, you say "none of the negatives" - surely the only negative is the inconvenience of charging? The Zoe wins on every other count.

The Fiesta is a better car than a Renault so residuals will obviously be higher. I was merely just using an example off the top of my head.

A comparable Renault Clio is around 6-6.5k so 2 grand cheaper than the Zoe. 2 Grand will give you around 20000 miles of motoring or 4-5 years for the average person.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

you've obviously not worked with a group of electronic engineers - you don't discuss football at lunch time, or netflix shows - physics is physics.

Physics doesn’t have statements ending with questions either.

 

[Haggisman]

The Fiesta is a better car than a Renault so residuals will obviously be higher. I was merely just using an example off the top of my head.

A comparable Renault Clio is around 6-6.5k so 2 grand cheaper than the Zoe. 2 Grand will give you around 20000 miles of motoring or 4-5 years for the average person.

You mean £8k? Need to add a couple of years and 10k+ mileage to get to £6.5k, and obviously the savings are mileage dependent, but that £500 would be maybe 5 months fuel at most for me.

An extra ~£3k over 3 years for a worse driving experience most of the time to save a bit of inconvenience* the 2-3 times/year we need to drive further than ~150 miles in one go? Yeah, I think I'd still have the Zoe thanks



* could hire a car for those odd weekends and still be better off vs the Clio

 

[Nasher]

Not sure the Zoe is a better driving experience lol. The Clios are pretty much universally considered better the drive. The have better suspension, better steering.

 

[SDK^]

But you won't get much for an end of life or dead EV. No one is going to pay you for the old batteries and who would you even contact to sell them. A scrappy might get something but not Joe public.

An EV battery with 50% life remaining will still be worth significant money.

Solar storage batteries for homes cost about £5k per 10 kWh.
So, an EV which started life with a 75 kWh battery, which reduces to 50% capacity (37 kWh) after 'xx' years will still have a value around £15k with today's values. [A 37 kWh battery can power the average 3-4 family house for over 3 days !]

 

[Hawk Tuah]

But you won't get much for an end of life or dead EV. No one is going to pay you for the old batteries and who would you even contact to sell them. A scrappy might get something but not Joe public.

There's plenty of use left in the batteries.

Old Nissan LEAF Batteries Being Used For Grid-Scale Storage In California - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! “Buy low and sell high” may be the ultimate expression of how to be successful in business. It works, whether you are selling apples, oranges, or electricity. Most of us don’t realize how much ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

 

[adam cool dude]

You mean £8k? Need to add a couple of years and 10k+ mileage to get to £6.5k, and obviously the savings are mileage dependent, but that £500 would be maybe 5 months fuel at most for me.

An extra ~£3k over 3 years for a worse driving experience most of the time to save a bit of inconvenience* the 2-3 times/year we need to drive further than ~150 miles in one go? Yeah, I think I'd still have the Zoe thanks



* could hire a car for those odd weekends and still be better off vs the Clio

The Renault Zoe 41kWh is from 2017 so used that as a guide and plenty of decent 2017+ Clio's on less than 50k miles for 6-6.5k. According to recent statistics the average person now only does 5kish miles a year and 2 grand will get you 4-5 years fuel at current prices. If fuel goes down that will increase.

My point is buying an EV to "save" money is a silly idea. The only people they benefit are the company car incentives really. The private buyer is shafted through residuals and the equivalent ICE variant being cheaper to purchase new (A brand new top spec Clio is 10k cheaper than a basic Zoe) means fuel saving are irrelevant. There will come a point when EV residuals will be so bad that they will actually make sense on the second hand market but we are not there yet.

The Clio is an immeasurably better car than the Zoe when you take away power plants as well.

 

[Haggisman]

The Renault Zoe 41kWh is from 2017 so used that as a guide and plenty of decent 2017+ Clio's on less than 50k miles for 6-6.5k. According to recent statistics the average person now only does 5kish miles a year and 2 grand will get you 4-5 years fuel at current prices. If fuel goes down that will increase.

My bad, I was mistaken in thinking the ZE40 came out in 2018, so filtered based on that. Looks like the 2017 ones are cheaper

What MPG are you using to get 20k miles for £2k? The only way I could get those maths to work at current prices is at ~70mpg

My point is buying an EV to "save" money is a silly idea.

Then you're arguing against a point which nobody has made . I merely pointed out we're getting to the stage that an older EV is almost in the "old banger" ballpark.

Given the choice between a comparable ICE or EV, I'd rather have the EV which is going to cost me less to run, likely be more reliable, be far more pleasant to drive, and be more convenient the vast majority of the time, with the added bonus it's helping reduce localised air pollution.

The Clio is an immeasurably better car than the Zoe when you take away power plants as well.

So from your experiences of driving both, what is better about the Clio than the Zoe?