Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[Greebo]

All property and land should be taxed, additional property beyond a single personal home should Farber an additional tax.

This would at least generate some revenue from the unoccupied houses.

Which would be achieved easily with the Labour proposal of LVT as a second home would be 5 times more council tax than a main home. Also unoccupied houses would still have to pay the LVT by the owner as well.

Which is why I think the LVT scheme has a lot of merits. The full LVT applies to land with planning permission as well so if somebody sits on building plots with planning permission they will be paying the same amount as if it had a house on it.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I like @StriderX 's idea, but applying it to properties that are rented misses the point somewhat and confuses the issue of rent affordability with ensuring land is put to a useful purpose. The discussion was about empty homes that do not serve their primary purpose of housing people.

It is quite a sensible idea, having an escalating tax on land / properties that are idle and not working / occupied, and would certainly encourage more development of older, existing brown properties.

The idea behind taxing rented properties with the aim of tackling affordability is to make owning property beyond your requirements less appealing. Doing this would make more available and makes sure those who need property have a chance to obtain it affordably.

So yeah, teh discussion is about making sure houses are put to use but we wouldn't have so much of a problem with houses being idle if there was far fewer people requiring housing. Ultimately we are talking about making sure everyone has a roof over their head

 

[McPhee]

To me, the problem with blaming immigration is pretty simple. There's no reason why bringing immigration down would increase house building, result in the replacement of outdated social housing stock, reduce land banking, reduce speculative investment in the UK property market, provide more robust rights/responsibilities for both landlords and tenants, or change our culture around property ownership.

If we reduce net migration that will help with the demand side of the problem. But the overall problem is much broader.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

he immigration argument often follows with 'we never had this issue before immigration!'... well we also built a lot more houses. We should have continued to build houses relative to requirement, as the land and money is there to do so. Unfortunately drip feeding houses makes it far easier for land owners to profit from selling it to development firms, while also makes the development firms far more money.

The rate we build houses is as much controlled by profit margin and the want to continually increase that margin, as much as anything else.

 

[LOAM]

Not saying I disagree, but the main reason why housing is under such pressure is because of the mass immigration we've suffered for the past decade or so. More people = more demand for housing, which results in ever-increasing house prices which encourages speculation, including buying properties and leaving them empty.

Its really not as simple as stating "the main reason" because its not the main reason,there simply is no one reason. I'm not saying its not a contributing factor,any increase in population would potentially impact demand but its far too complicated to claim "immigration pressure has caused a housing crisis" The fact is we have had a housing shortage brewing since the mid 1980's when the local authorities stopped building social housing but there are many contributing factors ranging from planning policy to Housing Revenue Account caps to affordable housing being controlled by central government rather than at local level. Add to all of that, there are national house builders and hedge fund managers who sit on vast land banks so that they can control the volume of houses built per annum to maintain "demand".

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Pretty much that^

Funny when people say 'blame immigration because supply n demand', when the demand is being controlled for profit anyway. Remove the demand and you will find that supply will drop to keep up.

We must target this market control first and foremost.

 

[LOAM]

Pretty much that^

Funny when people say 'blame immigration because supply n demand', when the demand is being controlled for profit anyway. Remove the demand and you will find that supply will drop to keep up.

We must target this market control first and foremost.

Its not just the nationals though, according to the recent RIBA report Up to 40% of land suitable for development, and about 27% of brownfield sites suitable for housing are currently owned by the public sector and they are loath to release it. Another factor is (you guessed it) our ageing population, we have a shortage of suitable living accommodation for the over 50's and whilst developers are starting to see the market in that area it has created a sort of bottleneck at the top whereby you get older couples rattling around in 5 bed houses (often against their desire) because there is little other option within their area. This slows the movement of the market down and contributes to the lack of first time homes.

Then you have VAT on renovation, utter madness that contributes to the 200K empty homes. The RIBA have suggested a rebate scheme on renovations that include energy performance upgrades and to be honest I totally agree.

 

[D.P.]

To me, the problem with blaming immigration is pretty simple. There's no reason why bringing immigration down would increase house building, result in the replacement of outdated social housing stock, reduce land banking, reduce speculative investment in the UK property market, provide more robust rights/responsibilities for both landlords and tenants, or change our culture around property ownership.

If we reduce net migration that will help with the demand side of the problem. But the overall problem is much broader.

Agreed, but then it's only small minded xenophobes that actually believe the main issue is immigration.

Imigrants can increases demand, but then so does women giving birth, or companies creating a HQ in a big city. Forcing a bank to set up a 6000 person office on the island of Harris may well reduce housing demand with London, and we could certainly make childbirth illegal.

Or we could try to tackle some of the real issues

 

[Tunney]

Not saying I disagree, but the main reason why housing is under such pressure is because of the mass immigration we've suffered for the past decade or so. More people = more demand for housing, which results in ever-increasing house prices which encourages speculation, including buying properties and leaving them empty.

I'm sure immigration has had an effect but London house prices have been rising since 1990, not just in the last decade.

The biggest issue is the councils simply aren't building new social housing. Kensington and Chelsea have build ten new homes in the last few decades and have sold off huge numbers through right-to-buy.

 

[Woden]

Not saying I disagree, but the main reason why housing is under such pressure is because of the mass immigration we've suffered for the past decade or so. More people = more demand for housing, which results in ever-increasing house prices which encourages speculation, including buying properties and leaving them empty.

Supply and demand goes out the window when supply is artificially limited to maximise profits.

If we were talking about Haribo that would be fine, but we're not. Housing is essential which makes the whole thing one-sided.

More social housing and a tax on vacant properties would help

 

[scorza]

Supply and demand goes out the window when supply is artificially limited to maximise profits.

If we were talking about Haribo that would be fine, but we're not. Housing is essential which makes the whole thing one-sided.

More social housing and a tax on vacant properties would help

Well fine, if the supply of housing is being artificially restricted then things can be done about that. I believe it's already illegal to manipulate a market in that way.

However we have to look at the demand side as well, increasing our population by hundreds of thousands every year is always going to put pressure on the housing market.

 

[D.P.]

Well fine, if the supply of housing is being artificially restricted then things can be done about that. I believe it's already illegal to manipulate a market in that way.

However we have to look at the demand side as well, increasing our population by hundreds of thousands every year is always going to put pressure on the housing market.

So you want a 1 child policy like China then?

 

[krooton]

Well fine, if the supply of housing is being artificially restricted then things can be done about that. I believe it's already illegal to manipulate a market in that way.

How exactly can the government force developers to build?

Housing in the UK is being controlled like how De Beers fake the value of diamonds.

 

[The_Abyss]

How exactly can the government force developers to build?

Housing in the UK is being controlled like how De Beers fake the value of diamonds.

The idle land / empty property tax proposed by a couple of others earlier in this thread would be a good start.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The only way we can seriously get enough houses to be built is to accept that as a nation we need the government (really local not national) to build houses

The failure to build consistently also means you get skills shortages as when people stop building you also get apprentices and other training dry up. When the next boom comes there isn't enough skilled labour (domestically), people also get put off the career due to boom and bust and it takes a long enough spell to happen for people to start being happy to go into it.

Its one of the more idiotic policies we have, not allowing local government to borrow to build houses.
Don't get me wrong, councils should not be building aspirational housing, but should be building acceptable housing, not high rise but medium rise, say blocks of 8, 4 floors x2 roughly.
It would kill off the buy to rent for lower level houses, would free up the first run for prospective purchasers and most importantly the council would have an asset as opposed to spending similar money on rent.

 

[The_Abyss]

Its one of the more idiotic policies we have, not allowing local government to borrow to build houses.
Don't get me wrong, councils should not be building aspirational housing, but should be building acceptable housing, not high rise but medium rise, say blocks of 8, 4 floors x2 roughly.
It would kill off the buy to rent for lower level houses, would free up the first run for prospective purchasers and most importantly the council would have an asset as opposed to spending similar money on rent.

The incredible irony of this is that, currently, councils are borrowing enormous sums of money and investing it into commercial property, hoping for a greater rental yield than than rate of interest on the loan. This is a business that most councils know nothing about too...

 

[Greebo]

The idle land / empty property tax proposed by a couple of others earlier in this thread would be a good start.

Sssssh you will get accused of being a money grabbing Leftie if you arent careful. Don;t you realise some of these empty houses and building plots are wealthy peoples pension pots?

 

[scorza]

https://order-order.com/2017/06/19/corbyn-praised-london-hezbollah-rally/
Watch: Corbyn praised by terrorist supporters at the Al-Quds march in London at the weekend.

 

[sports_brah]

Sssssh you will get accused of being a money grabbing Leftie if you arent careful. Don;t you realise some of these empty houses and building plots are wealthy peoples pension pots?

Or you could be like the idiots who blindly dismissed immigration as causing any issues at all. Like the large net amount over the past 20 years hasn't caused any of the problems.....

 

[Tunney]

https://order-order.com/2017/06/19/corbyn-praised-london-hezbollah-rally/
Watch: Corbyn praised by terrorist supporters at the Al-Quds march in London at the weekend.

As a vocal Trump supporter, what's your view on the Nazis who publicly supported Trump? Is Trump a Nazi because of their support?