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With Santander moving on to Renault ... or Ferrari ... or Skoda ... or Trabant ... or Zil ... or wherever Alonso has stomped off to
F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread
- Thread starter Duke
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Soldato
"No real details but a statement made at the BRDC awards this afternoon makes it clear that a Le Mans programme for Gulf and Aston Martin will be announced next week."
This makes Prodrive buying Honda seem unlikely IMO.
This makes Prodrive buying Honda seem unlikely IMO.
My apologies JRS, and in no way is this a dig, but what part of Alonso holding up Hamilton in the pit lane was that Hamilton playing silly buggers?
I genuinely can't remember what Hamilton would have done at that weekend to trigger it?
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Hamilton was supposed to let Alonso "go first" in qualifying. He didn't. Hamilton claimed that Alonso was too far behind as they left the pits ... I'm sure that that wasn't deliberate on Alonso's part
You have to remember that when Alonso joined McLaren, he had already fallen out with Renault a year earlier and he expected to have fellow Spaniard Pedro de la Rosa as his number two. Alonso is undoubtedly a great driver, but neither modesty or loyalty are part of his personality.
Soldato
Memphis said:
As srockhausen says, Hamilton started it by ignoring team orders and buggering up their planned strategy. I was also thinking of the fact that he got the stewards to side with him against his own team-mate, with Alonso being demoted from pole as a result.
Having pole position taken away and being put back 5 places on the gird is not what I'd call an appropriate response for a bit of gamesmanship in the pitlane. And since it was Hamilton that set that particular ball rolling.....
Modesty and loyalty can lose you championships. Just ask Sir Stirling Moss....
If McLaren were to have a bad year (as in, "2007 Honda" bad), then Hamilton would be off elsewhere like a shot. All that talk of "I want to see my career out with McLaren" would go straight out of the window.
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Well the best ever Honda was when Button drove it and rubens was at ferrari.(That could have been down to JV) You could argue that since Rubens has been at Honda they haven't exactly gone the right way up the grid.
Drivers bringing teams along is vastly over rated.
Soldato
First day of testing at Jerez today. Looking out the window the cloud base is about 50ft so the air is very cool (7°c) and quite damp (93%RH). Very little activity at the airport, I was expecting lots of private jets and charter flights full of kit.
Did spot this on Sunday though - http://www.flickr.com/photos/paxbgd/2452919746/ - EC-KPU
Did spot this on Sunday though - http://www.flickr.com/photos/paxbgd/2452919746/ - EC-KPU
Williams have in the last couple of days said " We exist to race, we are not going anywhere"
Obviously if Toyota do go (even though they have said they are staying put) - then Williams has to find an engine supplier very quickly but I really hope Williams dont go anywhere, a really sad loss to F1 if they went
Cosworth failed dismally the last time they were in F1, miserable reliability and I seem to recall under powered (I think it was at Williams in an interim year but that could be wrong)
I dont think Prodrive will buy Honda, even though I would love to see Dave Richards manage a team of his own on the grid (rather then deal with the Japanese which seem to use Honda racing team as a training department for their engineers)
So many permutations (even in a basic sense) of how a car can behave around a given track, the driver has to be suited to that particular car to get the most out of it
Of course its possible to manhandle a car when its necessary but over a season this will more than likely be found out
Next year is such a fundamental change to the regs, I hope some surprises will be in store
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72413
Slightly worrying news.... It appears that Max will force standard engines if 4 teams agree... and surprise surpirse, this matched the exact number of wholey independant teams within F1 that arent car manufacturers... Im not convinced about the Renault comments, as the whole idea of a big car maker using someone elses engine in the top level of motorsport seems nonsensicle to me. So the 4 private teams agree to standard engines, which is understnadable as its a good deal for them (providing the engine isnt a dog), and then the remaining 5 teams all quit.... yes, costs will be cut and racing leveled out, but if there isnt a massive influx of privateers wanting to start there own teams within the next 12 months then there wont be a 2010 season... Needless to say im slightly worryed about Max Moselys rulings...
Slightly worrying news.... It appears that Max will force standard engines if 4 teams agree... and surprise surpirse, this matched the exact number of wholey independant teams within F1 that arent car manufacturers... Im not convinced about the Renault comments, as the whole idea of a big car maker using someone elses engine in the top level of motorsport seems nonsensicle to me. So the 4 private teams agree to standard engines, which is understnadable as its a good deal for them (providing the engine isnt a dog), and then the remaining 5 teams all quit.... yes, costs will be cut and racing leveled out, but if there isnt a massive influx of privateers wanting to start there own teams within the next 12 months then there wont be a 2010 season... Needless to say im slightly worryed about Max Moselys rulings...
Did you read his letter to the teams? He gave them three options (and I cannot see that story contradicting what he said):
- Use the standard engine
- Buy the design for the standard engine and build it yourself
- Continue building your own engine, but the standard engine will be the benchmark for power output and you'll have to tune/detune yours appropriately
I don't believe max would ever push a spec engine on the whole grid as even he realises that auto manufacturers are good for the sport in the long term (and I would imagine Ferrari would have a few choice words for him too).
Soldato
But that is exactly what he's doing. What in the hell is the point of, say, Ferrari spending millions of euros developing their own engine if it's going to have to be crippled in order to allow the teams running the spec engine to keep up? They won't bring in a cheap engine just to see it get utterly monstered by the manufacturer ones, they'll apply restrictions to level the playing field.
Oh, and I can just see the fun and games on here if the following scenario plays out:
All the teams are using the spec engine, except McLaren and Ferrari. The scrutineers/stewards/whoever are making sure that the Mercedes and Ferrari units match up power-wise to the rest of the grid and by extension to each other. Now, am I the only one who sees the potential for an almighty amount of wailing from folks who are convinced that the FIA solely exist to help Ferrari (I'm looking at you, sunama)? They'll be utterly sure that the FIA won't be holding back the Ferrari engine quite as much as they're holding back the Mercedes one!
Soldato
it just goes to show with all this talk about stock engines etc
that F1 has lost its way and there now coming up with stupid ideas to try and get back on track.
if they go with the stock engine they my as well go the indy route and have the same car also
i hate boring 1 make engine/car races
that F1 has lost its way and there now coming up with stupid ideas to try and get back on track.
if they go with the stock engine they my as well go the indy route and have the same car also
i hate boring 1 make engine/car races
That would completely kill Formula 1 in my eyes - fine have some privateer teams with a standard engine if they cant afford a McLaren/Ferrari / etc but dont force the whole grid into such measures otherwise its more like Formula Joe Bloggs where a souped up Fiesta can go faster than a F1 car!!!
You just proved my point. That list does not contain a 4th option "Do not use standard engines". The teams have no choice, either choose to use standard engines (either physically or by design), or be forced to use standard engines. And as JRS said, why would any car maker want to be in F1 if it couldnt actually design anything for itself? Just think, what single make series do you know where there is a car manufacturer owned team? F1 needs unique cars, engines and drive trains.
Don
Skeeter, read the third point...
They can continue to build their own engine, but the standard engine is used as the benchmark with performance they cannot exceed.
Deleted member 66701
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Deleted member 66701
It may be that the Ferrari and the Mclaren engines end up being limited to the same power as the Cosworth engine but that doesn't stop them spending millions on developing those engines to be super reliable and fuel efficient, which are race winners in themselves.
It always gets spouted that F1 designs end up benefitting road cars - I certainly look forward to super reliable, fuel efficient and high power units coming down the tech path.
People get hung up on power in F1 - it's not the be all and end all - as the Veritas proved last week on Top Gear and got humiliated by the Caterham (I know they're not F1 cars but the same principle applies).
It always gets spouted that F1 designs end up benefitting road cars - I certainly look forward to super reliable, fuel efficient and high power units coming down the tech path.
People get hung up on power in F1 - it's not the be all and end all - as the Veritas proved last week on Top Gear and got humiliated by the Caterham (I know they're not F1 cars but the same principle applies).
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Soldato
So, once again - what would be the point in the grandee manufacturer teams spending millions of pounds/euros/dollars/bars of gold-pressed latinum on MOTOR RACING ENGINES when they're going to have to de-tune them to make it fair for the poor little garagiste teams who can't afford to build or buy a more powerful motor?
So, what you're saying is that this effort to cut costs would simply lead to an escalation in spending on engine tech? Right?
Prosecution rests, m'lud
Deleted member 66701
D
Deleted member 66701
Hey, I never once said that the standard engine idea made sense
But what it will do is let the big boys fight it out but level the playing field for everyone else AND cut their costs in the process. F1 and F1.2 if you will
So, what you're saying is that this effort to cut costs would simply lead to an escalation in spending on engine tech? Right?
Prosecution rests, m'lud
Well, the FIA have got to try and reduce spending, especially so that the less wealthy teams can still compete in the sport and nobody else pulls out due to financial difficulty. At the same time you will never be able to prevent those teams with big money from spending.
What are the alternatives?