F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread
- Thread starter Duke
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No car manufacturer is going to spend money on an engine making it better than the Cosworth option only to have it limited. Especially seen as the major issue with car manufacturers is the cost of development just like this.
Basically, the Cosworth engine needs to be utterly epic to make the manufacturers want to keep up (which, lets all be honest, isnt going to happen, especially seen as they will be getting a comparitive pittance from each customer, so no money to develp the engine). So this means all the manufacturers are going to be like... uh, whats the point...
Look at it this way. This ruling will force all teams to be equal, but that the term 'equal' is actually defined as 'no faster than the slowest'. Basically, the rulling says that no team can be faster than Force India, and if you are, they will restrict you. Whats the point in a car manufacturer investing in that? They will just go elsewhere. After all, the car manufacturers are in F1 to promote their brand, and they cant do that when they arent allowed to be better than their competitors. They wil just go elsewjere where they can develop cars to be the best.
And Malth Viniger - Whats the difference between being forced to use a standard engine, and being forced to make your designs the same as a standard engine? there simply is no option availoable to the teams that will allow indipendant development.
EDIT: I feel I must add, however, that if there was a long list of privateer teams desperately trying to join F1 and build there own chassis and produce some radically different designs, then I wouldnt have any issue with them having standardised parts. Maybe not the entire drivechain, but the engine on its own maybe. Afterall, there is an awefull log on an F1 car that is standardised already. But the fact of the matter is, there isnt a list of people clambering to join F1. Even those who do fight there way in (Prodrive) are prevented from joining through conflicts between teams and badly managed decisions. If Jordan, Minardi, Prodrive, and a load more private team owners suddelny said they want in, and the FIA stated that they would allow customer chassis and a standardised engine design (not a physical unit) then I would be all for it. A mish mash of engines matched with different chassis, and again on 2 or more tyre suppliers with teams of privateers who are in it for the winning and nothign else, I would love it.
The standardised engine concept has its valid good points, but in the current situation in F1, wherer the majority of the grid are made up of car manufacturers, it simply wont work.
Basically, the Cosworth engine needs to be utterly epic to make the manufacturers want to keep up (which, lets all be honest, isnt going to happen, especially seen as they will be getting a comparitive pittance from each customer, so no money to develp the engine). So this means all the manufacturers are going to be like... uh, whats the point...
Look at it this way. This ruling will force all teams to be equal, but that the term 'equal' is actually defined as 'no faster than the slowest'. Basically, the rulling says that no team can be faster than Force India, and if you are, they will restrict you. Whats the point in a car manufacturer investing in that? They will just go elsewhere. After all, the car manufacturers are in F1 to promote their brand, and they cant do that when they arent allowed to be better than their competitors. They wil just go elsewjere where they can develop cars to be the best.
And Malth Viniger - Whats the difference between being forced to use a standard engine, and being forced to make your designs the same as a standard engine? there simply is no option availoable to the teams that will allow indipendant development.
EDIT: I feel I must add, however, that if there was a long list of privateer teams desperately trying to join F1 and build there own chassis and produce some radically different designs, then I wouldnt have any issue with them having standardised parts. Maybe not the entire drivechain, but the engine on its own maybe. Afterall, there is an awefull log on an F1 car that is standardised already. But the fact of the matter is, there isnt a list of people clambering to join F1. Even those who do fight there way in (Prodrive) are prevented from joining through conflicts between teams and badly managed decisions. If Jordan, Minardi, Prodrive, and a load more private team owners suddelny said they want in, and the FIA stated that they would allow customer chassis and a standardised engine design (not a physical unit) then I would be all for it. A mish mash of engines matched with different chassis, and again on 2 or more tyre suppliers with teams of privateers who are in it for the winning and nothign else, I would love it.
The standardised engine concept has its valid good points, but in the current situation in F1, wherer the majority of the grid are made up of car manufacturers, it simply wont work.
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I can't see why they can't enforce a maximum budget that all teams have to stick to
Teams can easily "doctor" the paperwork, to ensure that more money is spent on a car part than has been officially declared.
The easiest way would be to carry out certain transactions in cash, with a reciept written out for a lower amount than was actually paid.
Staff might be given a percentage of their salary as a (guaranteed) bonus, as the end of the year, which might not include the budget for the season.
It will get to such a point where the FIA will be spending a lot of their time checking and enforcing budget constraints.
Off the top of my head, I can easily think of more ways to spend money so it goes totally undetected. If you give me a few weeks, I can come up with concrete methods of evading the budget constraints. In fact, it will get to a point where the constraints wont be a constraint any longer as teams will have found ways around the financial declaration.
I can't see why they can't enforce a maximum budget that all teams have to stick to
For manufacturer based teams, the parent company could "shoulder the cost" of a lot of the research, leaving it off the racing teams books.
Deleted member 66701
D
Deleted member 66701
Exactly.
BMW road vehicle bod: "Hi, would you like to use this piston we've just developed for use in the M5"
BMW F1 bod: "Sure, that looks like it will work - how much does it cost".
BMW road vehicle bod: "Oh, Only £1k a peice".
BMW F1 bod: "Wow - that sounds an excellent deal - we'll take 40. Mind you, you didn't spend too much on developing it did you? We've got a research cap.".
BMW road vehicle bod: "No, it was done in the road engineers spare time."
BMW F1 bod: "Coolio".
Soldato
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LOL, cars look too funny.
Ferrari and Mclaren not bothering with new stuff yet then!
Maybe they're hoping the rules are retracted so the cars aren't as ugly!
Nope, I guess they are just keeping them "sooper secret" for as long as possible so that the other teams can't pore over spy shots and learn a trick or two.
The word I'm looking for can't be said on here on account of this being a family-friendly place. It's a slang word for the male sexual organs, 8 letters and begins with a 'B'.
F1 owes nobody a living. If the teams cannot stand the heat, they should vacate the cooking area. And if it kills Formula One - so what? Everyone will just regroup around a new Formula for the Grand Prix world championship. Mind, the FIA should remember that the last time they ran GP racing to a lower Formula, Ferrari went ahead and dominated.....
I admit when I do someone a disservice.
Even if McLaren and Alonso didin't have bad blood between them, it would still be interesting to watch. History has unfortunately shown that in Grand Prix racing you can't really have drivers of equal or comparable ability going for the title in the same team and not have an absolute ruckus.
I can think of a few occasions where it's worked, and they're all a reasonable way back in GP history. Moss and Fangio at Mercedes in '55. Hawthorn and Collins at Ferrari in '58. Brabham and Hulme in '67. One year of Senna-Prost at McLaren ('88). I can think of many more seasons where it didn't.
So I guess Renault reckon they can win without Alonso as he'll retire if we get standard engines.
Nope, I recon the Renault comments are either:
a) the affromentioned male genetalia
b) Flavio doing whatever he can to stir things up
Soldato
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looks like its going to hit honda in motoGP too
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...r/8-14/dec0908-honda-considering-motogp-cuts/
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...r/8-14/dec0908-honda-considering-motogp-cuts/
Soldato
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so the Honda team if someone buys it, will become a Ferrari engined team
as honda arent even doing engines next year
so i wonder how much the team will sell for without the engine
from the website posted ^^1 post up
"Fukui also revealed that Honda will not even remain involved in F1 as an engine supplier, despite attempts to sell the Brackley based team as a going concern before the 2009 season commences in late March.
Instead, it is understood that Honda team boss and former Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has arranged that a buyer of the Brackley outfit will be powered by 2.4 litre Ferrari V8s."
as honda arent even doing engines next year
so i wonder how much the team will sell for without the engine
from the website posted ^^1 post up
"Fukui also revealed that Honda will not even remain involved in F1 as an engine supplier, despite attempts to sell the Brackley based team as a going concern before the 2009 season commences in late March.
Instead, it is understood that Honda team boss and former Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has arranged that a buyer of the Brackley outfit will be powered by 2.4 litre Ferrari V8s."
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Don
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Well, maybe they will lump for the cheaper customer cosworth unit instead!
So, potientally the team could be called:
Prodrive Cosworth (will customers use the engine name as the cosworth is unbranded?)
Prodrive
Prodrive Ferrari
Prodrive F1?
So, potientally the team could be called:
Prodrive Cosworth (will customers use the engine name as the cosworth is unbranded?)
Prodrive
Prodrive Ferrari
Prodrive F1?
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