F1 2011 season news / pre-season updates

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dannyjo22 said:
Alonso is hardly a qually slouch. Is anyone seriously suggesting Vettel would get the better of Alonso in the same car, when he could barely beat him in a far far superior one.

People have this hatered of Alonso, fair enough but come on surely no one is that crazy to ignore what happened last year to even think Vettel could match Alonso.
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Across a race? At developing a car? No question Alonso's the better driver. But put them in the same car, with the same tyres and fuel load for a Saturday qualifying? That's where Vettel really shines. Vettel has been on pole at almost 1 in 4 of his race starts; Alonso just 1 in 8. And that's not down to the speed of the cars they've been sat in; on race day Vettel has managed the fastest lap 1 time in 10, Alonso 1 time in 9. Both have won 1 race in 6.

If the Ferrari they're both sitting in is the best on the grid; Vettel will put it on pole and win the race from the front as he does so well. If it's not, Alonso will beat him on race craft. But we've seen how Alonso reacts to having a teammate who can match him, and it's not pretty, so I wouldn't be so sure Alonso would make light work of Vettel.
 
Spunkey said:
Interesting comparison of the wheelbases of the 2011 cars. The McLaren and Red Bull are about even, the F150 is a little shorter. However the surprise to me is the Mercedes which is really short, even allowing a little for the marginally different angles. Assuming they've got a fullsize fuel tank and a KERS system wedged in there, they've done an awesome job packaging that up so small. Should mean the car is much better in the slow and tight sections.
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These days the wheelbases of all the cars are very long compared to their widths, so the slight differences between the cars will have a miniscule affect on the cars handling on tight twisty bits. It's far more to do with weight distribution (though that isn't an issue this year), polar moment of inertia, CofG height, aero balance, how the car uses its tyres and suspension design.
 
Mr Jack said:
If the Ferrari they're both sitting in is the best on the grid; Vettel will put it on pole and win the race from the front as he does so well. If it's not, Alonso will beat him on race craft. But we've seen how Alonso reacts to having a teammate who can match him, and it's not pretty, so I wouldn't be so sure Alonso would make light work of Vettel.
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That's a well laid out argument. I like it.

However, what we saw last year was Vettel getting rattled by his team-mate. Bear in mind, Webber isn't a particularly great driver, yet he was able to finish very close to Vettel in many races. In some races, he even beat Vettel, on merit/pace.

Replace Webber with arguably the best driver in F1 and its going to be an uphill struggle for Vettel to win.

We also know that (apart from Hamilton), Alonso, as the season progresses seems to possess a quality which wears down his team-mate. I have absolutely no idea what he does or how he achieves this, but it does happen. I remember at Renault, Fisichella was fighting closely with Alonso at the start of the season. I think Fisichella even won the first race in 2005. But, by the end of the season, Fisichella had been worn down and Alonso more than doubled Fisichella's points tally.

Similarly, if you look at 2010 - Massa started fine. He was able to follow Alonso closely and would often end up in front of him, keeping Alonso behind him. He also had a lot of "fight" in him. But as the season wore on, Massa just got worn down and seemed to lose the "fight" which he possessed earlier on in the season.

Who's to say that Alonso wouldn't do the same to Vettel?
 
sunama said:
Similarly, if you look at 2010 - Massa started fine. He was able to follow Alonso closely and would often end up in front of him, keeping Alonso behind him. He also had a lot of "fight" in him. But as the season wore on, Massa just got worn down and seemed to lose the "fight" which he possessed earlier on in the season.

Who's to say that Alonso wouldn't do the same to Vettel?
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Massa was under 'instruction' though, so hardly fair on him at the end of the season.

And if Vettel were to rattle Alonso early in the season, would he recover?
 
If the Renault is as quick as it seems, and say, it was challenging and getting race wins with Heidfeld at the helm... hypothetically... would Petrov be kicked out to make way for Kubica? Wonder how much money comes his way from the russians, mind.
 
I can't speak for renault, but I am told that custard was asked to bring €10m in sponsorship to virgin in return for his seat. I would guess that petrov is likely bringing similar if not more..
 
Jesus H, if F1 can't trust new drivers due to lack of testing so we have to suffer more of heidfelds plodding around doing nothing of note then the system needs changing.

The man was shot, finished in F1 when Jordan binned his average arse years ago. He didn't even get the better of a washed up Villenueve with Dr Mario doing his best to unsettle and get rid of the canadian in favour of his fellow german.

Let the kids test properly to prepare and actually have a fair shot at F1 or we will miss potential drivers like Lewis and Alonso etc.

It's just too risky to put a young driver in now and expect them to compete well enough not to have their career slated before they even begin.
 
The GP2 events today have been completely cancelled in Bahrain due to 3 deaths in clashes between protestors and police. The medical staff at the track were called away to help with the emergencies, so there was no way they could go racing.

Also a couple of teams have been told to stay at the track and not to return to their hotels.

The F1 test there could be a bit fraught in a couple of weeks.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Jesus H, if F1 can't trust new drivers due to lack of testing so we have to suffer more of heidfelds plodding around doing nothing of note then the system needs changing.
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Heidfeld is almost certainly a better driver than Bruno Senna. Petrov is inexperienced (and, frankly, lucky to still have a seat). Heidfeld makes sense regardless of the

The man was shot, finished in F1 when Jordan binned his average arse years ago. He didn't even get the better of a washed up Villenueve with Dr Mario doing his best to unsettle and get rid of the canadian in favour of his fellow german.
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In what possible sense did Heidfeld, who comprehensively outscored Villeneuve and beat him in almost every race, not get the better of him?

And that's not the only season Heidfeld did better than his teammate. In his first season (2000, for Prost) he beat Alesi in the only race they both finished and got Prost's best finish of the season. In 2001, he outscored no less a driver than Kimi*. In 2002 he outscored Massa. In 2004, when "binned" by Jordan he was their top scoring driver. In 2005 he was outscoring Mark Webber until he missed the last part of the season due to injury. In 2006 he, as already mentioned, beat Villeneuve. In 2007 and 2009, he outscored Kubica himself.

So, across ten full F1 seasons, he was beaten by his teammate in just two years - 2003 (by Frentzen) and 2008 (by Kubica).

He may not be a top tier driver but your characterisation of him as "plodding around" is off the mark, and he is almost certainly the best driver that Renault could actually get to fill the seat.
 
Mr Jack said:
So, across ten full F1 seasons, he was beaten by his teammate in just two years - 2003 (by Frentzen) and 2008 (by Kubica).
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Mr Jack, you put together well thought out arguments and appear to be good at debating. Its refreshing to see this. Usually we are confronted with snide/bitchy remarks when 2 people disagree with eachother, with little debate.

I think what Danny is getting at, is that Heidfeld will never be a top racer. He's had enough time to show this. Yes he is reliable - we know this because he finished more races on the trot that almost any drivers in F1. He may even hold the record for completing races on the trot (though I'm not sure).

Its quite possible that the Renault may be a race winning car this year and perhaps it might be better to give a new driver a run, rather than a driver who has shown that he cannot compete at the highest level and has now only re-entered F1 because another driver was severely injured.
 
I'll be shocked if Heidfield does well in the Renault, he strikes me as my consistant with a 'bring it home attitude' which is good but surely you need to have a fair chunk of Lewis Hamilton esk 'Push Push Push' attitude to realy get anywhere.
 
Agree with Mr Jack, Heidfeld isn't anywhere near as bad as some people are making out. In any case he's not in the team for outright speed.

If it was Petrov who was injured I'm sure a more inexperienced driver would have taken his place as they would still have Kubica to lead and develop the car. Heidfeld is there to develop the car primarily and make solid finishes which he has proven track record of. No one has ever said he's a top tier driver.
 
sunama said:
Its quite possible that the Renault may be a race winning car this year and perhaps it might be better to give a new driver a run, rather than a driver who has shown that he cannot compete at the highest level and has now only re-entered F1 because another driver was severely injured.
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From the point of view of F1 it's always enjoyable to see bright young talent given a decent shot. From Renault's point of view, they've already got a unreliable rookie in one seat and need an old hand to steady the ship after the shock loss of a top notch driver. I cannot think of another driver who fits that bill as well as Heidfeld who they could actually get into the car.

The bigger question is whether F1 has a problem with new talent getting into F1. I don't think so. There are going to be at least three new drivers sitting on the grid at Bahrain (Perez, di Resta and Maldonado). 2010 saw five (IIRC) completely new drivers and one with only a handful of races. None of them are at top teams - but apart from rare exceptions such as Hamilton - when have new drivers ever sat in grid topping cars?

So I'm not really seeing a fundamentally problem here; new talent is still getting a chance to enter the sport.
 
Dutch Guy said:
As I read it on a local site it was because of the medical staff that was needed in the capital and without medical staff they are not allowed to race, not because of protests near the track.
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Yep, and theres no reason why this wont happen again in 3 weeks. If the medical or security staff are needed elsewhere then F1 wont race.
 
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