I'm quite positive Bernie, Max and probably Jean have a whole heap of history with Dave Richards and I'm pretty sure at least two of them really don't like him and quite possibly did everything they could to make sure his team and him weren't selected. Remember Dave Richards ran the WRC for a while along with Prodrive running the Subaru team.
F1 2012 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!
- Thread starter Malt_Vinegar
- Start date
It wasn't just Prodrive though. There were a number of big names who applied who weren't picked, like Lola.
To me at least, it appeared the FIA chose teams they could 'use'. It was a time when they were trying to force through a single engine supplier, and top teams were talking of a breakaway. They chose weak teams who would likely be on the FIAs side in a conflict, and only selected teams who were going to use the Cosworth engine, one of the suppliers in talks about a single engine.
However, when the breakaway idea cooled down, the single engine idea was canned, and a bunch of testing restrictions came in, the FIA were stuck with 3 news teams that were of little use to them, and have struggled to hold on to their places at the bottom of the grid.
If the FIA had not gone with the political choices and instead looked at proven successfull race teams then we could have had 3 far more solid and successful teams on the grid now.
To me at least, it appeared the FIA chose teams they could 'use'. It was a time when they were trying to force through a single engine supplier, and top teams were talking of a breakaway. They chose weak teams who would likely be on the FIAs side in a conflict, and only selected teams who were going to use the Cosworth engine, one of the suppliers in talks about a single engine.
However, when the breakaway idea cooled down, the single engine idea was canned, and a bunch of testing restrictions came in, the FIA were stuck with 3 news teams that were of little use to them, and have struggled to hold on to their places at the bottom of the grid.
If the FIA had not gone with the political choices and instead looked at proven successfull race teams then we could have had 3 far more solid and successful teams on the grid now.
Soldato
To be fair, TL/Caterham have been very impressive. They've built their own car from scratch, now negotiated themselves a Renault engine and a Red Bull gearbox to go with it and are making good infrastructure plans to make themselves a low-midfield runner in the next year or two, moving up to top 10 within the next 5 years.
Virgin were only there because they had Branson to bankroll them. He obviously realised how much was involved in getting the team going, and with no real motoring-related business to promote, F1 was of no real interest to him it wasn't surprising he left at the first opportunity. The best thing Virgin did was to use CFD alone to build their car. This in turn let every other team know that the technology is good, but nowhere near advanced enough to be relied on to build a car in its entirety.
I will agree though that USF1 and Campos Meta/HRT are timewasters who only got the FIA nod because they were willing to tow the line as and when called to.
The shame of it all is that it's now too late for a team of good repute to gain the 12th grid spot as they've all been scared away by the FIA's hidden agenda (Prodrive) or don't have the funds necessary to compete (Dams, Lola, Arden).
Virgin were only there because they had Branson to bankroll them. He obviously realised how much was involved in getting the team going, and with no real motoring-related business to promote, F1 was of no real interest to him it wasn't surprising he left at the first opportunity. The best thing Virgin did was to use CFD alone to build their car. This in turn let every other team know that the technology is good, but nowhere near advanced enough to be relied on to build a car in its entirety.
I will agree though that USF1 and Campos Meta/HRT are timewasters who only got the FIA nod because they were willing to tow the line as and when called to.
The shame of it all is that it's now too late for a team of good repute to gain the 12th grid spot as they've all been scared away by the FIA's hidden agenda (Prodrive) or don't have the funds necessary to compete (Dams, Lola, Arden).
Prodrive were the management team in charge of running BAR Honda. Dave Richards and the Honda exec's didn't see eye to eye when they were looking at buying the team.
Honda's management style just didn't mesh with F1 - every decision being made by a committee saw them go from 2nd in the WCC to pretty much last. Unfortunately, Honda employed someone from Prodrive who suddenly appeared to have no spine, so the collapse of the team continued. Good old Fry...
sorry just catching up with this
Was it officially Prodrive - or did the management team work two jobs (I just dont recall the Prodrive name actually being used as such for the F1 team, until they actually wanted to buy it as themselves)
So even after Richards left (and Fry came in / more prominant) it was still a Prodrive outfit?
Personally thought Fry did a reasonable job, and it was the sponsorship collapse worldwide that killed Honda (that god awful "Earth" car
) after tobacco sponsorship was bannedWhile I totally agree with your thoughts about "using" smaller teams - is Lola still the same team, or like Lotus is it just the name that remains?
(and not digging at Lola, but even if it is the same team Im not sure how much better they would be given their severe lack of current f1 experience, even at the time).
Apart from Prodrive, I dont really recall any teams wanting to enter that were huge current names this side of the Atlantic (in any formula)
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Lola are still the same I think. They are a big name in terms of building cars, not actually racing them. They made the chassis that underpinned the Aston Martin LMP1 car, along with a lot of other current and past P1 and P2 cars. They have also done a lot of work in single seaters including CART, Formula 3 and A1GP.
As prospective teams go, they were far more credible than any of the 3 that were picked.
http://www.lolacars.com/race_cars_projects.asp
Infact, they build more race cars than pretty much anyone on the current F1 grid!
As prospective teams go, they were far more credible than any of the 3 that were picked.
http://www.lolacars.com/race_cars_projects.asp
Infact, they build more race cars than pretty much anyone on the current F1 grid!
But Campos, USF1 and Manor did?
I'm not saying Lola are some huge Ferrari rival, but when compared to who was actually chosen, there were some far more substantial teams in the list.
Lola currently have 60% of the staff and technicians they had when the doomed Mastercard Lola was launched, the facilities are nowhere near now what they were then and minimum wage, low skilled Polish make up 40% of their labour force.
Soldato
Lola has tried F1 several times over the years, and they were never any good. The Mastercard Lola debacle of '97, the feeble heap they designed for Scuderia Italia in '93, several cars for Larrousse that only resulted in one podium finish over five seasons, a brief tie-up with the Embassy-Hill team while they got their own in-house car going, their solitary win with the car they designed for Honda (an overweight, overpowered monstrosity that took John Surtees to tame it) and their original entry with Bowmaker in '62 that lasted a year before being shut down.
They didn't deserve another shot, even if they had been capable of actually getting to the grid again which I seriously doubt.
Soldato
Jerome d'Ambrosio has been named as 3rd driver for Bad Lotus.
Good on him. He showed that he has the pace by beating Glock a few times last year.
Good on him. He showed that he has the pace by beating Glock a few times last year.
Soldato
Yeah, how did their plan fall apart?!
Did they actually have a plan? Possibly one of the worst teams never to get into F1. No designs, no chassis, no wages for staff. Wasn't that the general gist of what happened?
Yeah, how did their plan fall apart?!
I still want one of their toasters. I believe it's the only thing they actually produced other than bull****.
Soldato
I vaguely recall that. Wasn't it because the FIA actually admitted them to F1 and then they crashed out.
I've heard their toasters were rubbish. Made nothing other than hot air.I still want one of their toasters. I believe it's the only thing they actually produced other than bull****.
Soldato
It was a very strange situation - similar to what happened with the proposed move of the British GP to Donington. The guys putting forward the bid had no money themselves (in F1 terms) and it was all based on meeting certain agreements with certain sponsors etc. Having no capital to start designing a car with, or even to get someone else to build a car for you as HRT did, their plan completely fell apart as they met none of these agreements.
You really have to wonder what kind of due diligence checks the FIA undertook before allowing the teams in.
It was quite surprising as the men involved - Peter Windsor especially - is highly respected amongst the F1 teams.
You really have to wonder what kind of due diligence checks the FIA undertook before allowing the teams in.
It was quite surprising as the men involved - Peter Windsor especially - is highly respected amongst the F1 teams.
Soldato
How HRT managed it is still amazing.
I think it was a case of "Are you with us or with the other F1 teams? Us? Ok, you're in!"
Yep, he certainly ruined his copybook. I know James Allen took over as the press conference bloke as Windsor was obliged to stand down once USF1 was announced.
Caporegime
I'm glad he got something, but I fear third driver status is pretty much career over for most drivers that end there these days. Of all the drivers lost from the grid for the coming year, he's the one I'm most disappointed about - I thought he showed promise and real talent on many occasions.