Fairness issue at work

Permabanned
Joined
9 Aug 2008
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35,707
No, we are classed as working from home, so if I have a job that only takes 3 hours, but takes 3 hours to get to and from site.
We are supposed to go home and do admin or emails, as most of our sites don’t have a building or internet coverage.

So now we will sit on site for the 8 hours, then book overtime for travel and admin.

All you can do is explain your situation, I seriously wouldn't push things as they could turn around and change contracts for everyone and at worst cut jobs who knows! I hate stuff like this in the work place as there's always politics going on and always someone complaining about something when there probably doesn't need to be. urgh! As above make sure a rep/HR are there. HR usually sides with the manager anyway not the worker unless they are caught out.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
14 Apr 2017
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London
Hi guys,

Just want some clarification/common sense before I go to my union at work.

I work for a reasonable sized company, general staff drive liveried vans/pickups management/ fixed site staff have company cars.

Last month my pick-up was equipped with a black box telemetry unit, we were told that these units were designed to only monitor our driving for insurance and safety.

Que this morning I have received an email from a random manager stating the following:
* I have repeatedly done 60mph on nsl roads, my pickup is registered as a dual purpose vehicle so has same speed limits as a car.
* engine was switched on and van moved on the weekend when not on call, had to move van off drive for delivery. Literally moved it 10 yards.
* van was sat idling on site for 4 hours, said site has no power supply and was charging all my test equipment and laptop.
* van wasn’t started or moved till 9 am yesterday, I am contracted 8-4 but previous day had done a 16 hour shift, which my boss lets us have a relaxed early morning start the next day.

The knob has said he will be forwarding this information to my line manager and network engineering.

Pretty sure none of the above is in the agreed scope of the original installation bar the speed in the nsl.

Also got a bitchy reply back when I asked if the company cars have had telemetry boxes fitted, as these are under the same insurance and aren’t limited.

Questioning whether to go to my union about this?

Any suggestions

I don’t know enough about what your company do, or what Union you’re in, but this kind of reminds me about years and years back, when tachographs were first introduced into HGVs.
I was driving an oil tanker for the biggest lubricating oil producers on the planet, and we drivers were called to a meeting with the management and some technical bods, who told us that tachographs were definitely coming.
It was patently obvious to we drivers, that here endeth the good times, of filling in our own log sheets, and getting away with blue murder.
e.g., when working away from home, getting up around 08.00, having breakfast in the hotel, then strolling down to the truck, and starting work at maybe 09.30-09.45, but entering 07.00 start on the log sheet.
Or being given four days to truck 4800 gallons of oil to a site some 330 miles from the depot and back, involving three nights lodging away payment, then driving all the way there in one day, discharging the oil, and checking into a small hotel.
Next day, drive all the way back, put the truck in a car park, have two days at home, before picking up the truck and returning to base, handing in a completely fabricated four days log sheets, good times.
Our shop steward was at the meeting, and we asked him if there was anything that could be done to stop this, he said, “No guys, I’m in the same boat, it’s called progress, and even if we strike, we’re not going to stop it, it’s coming in everywhere, we’ll just have to bite the bullet.”
Naturally, being resourceful, we found tiny ways to get around it, but they never lasted for long, and guys began to get fired when caught, and we had to accept that the job would never be the same again.
That was my cue to do “The Knowledge” and become a Black Cab driver.
Good luck Abraxaz1.
 
Associate
Joined
1 Dec 2017
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293
Look at it this way. Everything is easily explainable, and now you know how much they're scrutinizing usage so you don't get caught doing something stupid.

Not really a union issue as what they are monitoring is surely something to be expected of with company vehicles.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Posts
2,677
I never understand companies that behave like this, they try and screw every last bit of everything out of employees it just makes people resentful and bitter and actually has the opposite effect of what they are trying to achieve (which is increased productivity)
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Apr 2007
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13,564
I'd hate to work for a company like this.
In our place we have internal cameras, the new boss one day came round and unplugged them all saying he doesn't like being spied on so didn't expect everyone else to feel like that.
Much rather earn less but work somewhere that genuinely cares.
 
Soldato
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All you can do is explain your situation, I seriously wouldn't push things as they could turn around and change contracts for everyone and at worst cut jobs who knows! I hate stuff like this in the work place as there's always politics going on and always someone complaining about something when there probably doesn't need to be. urgh! As above make sure a rep/HR are there. HR usually sides with the manager anyway not the worker unless they are caught out.

They tried changing contracts last year, then realised all the electricians and instrumentation were looking at jobs elsewhere for much better pay, we lost pretty much all our HV authorised sparks and half our instrumentation techs to ABB and Siemens. Que back peddling.

They seem happy when they have messed up to ask us to lose our weekends but willing to to try and **** us over at every opportunity, might tell them next time they need ofgem recertification in Scotland because they messed up that I’m too busy with family to drive a trailer up from wales and do it, cos they got rid of a contract without realising no one up north was certified. Would love to see management face the shareholders with that fine.
 
Caporegime
Joined
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Posts
58,912
I think it is a bit premature to panic and want to get a union involved. Nothing has even happened, yet. Some manager has asked some questions, all of which you have reasonable explanations for, so just reply to the questions and copy in your manager.

If these are new then the manager who is monitoring this stuff probably just needs to be told X, Y etc.. aren’t an issue. Maybe he will still ask about not starting a shift until an hour later or using the company vehicle when on a weekend (though perhaps it will become clearer to him when it has just been moved briefly) but your manager gave permission - he doesn’t know that until you tell him.

If down the line the guy is asking stupid questions and wasting time with stuff that has already been clarified - like being able to drive at nsl etc... then you might want to escalate. At the moment though I don’t see a huge issue other than a bit of faff having to reply to the e-mail.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
58,912
I'd hate to work for a company like this.
In our place we have internal cameras, the new boss one day came round and unplugged them all saying he doesn't like being spied on so didn't expect everyone else to feel like that.
Much rather earn less but work somewhere that genuinely cares.

That’s just odd. Like say someone gets their mobile phone robbed by an agency cleaner and wants to ask them to check the cctv etc... having cameras doesn’t mean anyone is “spying” on you, they’re usually passive and require someone to took through a recording. I mean does he refuse to use the company e-mail system too and insist on using a personal e-mail?
 
Soldato
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Location
North Yorkshire
I think it is a bit premature to panic and want to get a union involved. Nothing has even happened, yet. Some manager has asked some questions, all of which you have reasonable explanations for, so just reply to the questions and copy in your manager.

If these are new then the manager who is monitoring this stuff probably just needs to be told X, Y etc.. aren’t an issue. Maybe he will still ask about not starting a shift until an hour later or using the company vehicle when on a weekend (though perhaps it will become clearer to him when it has just been moved briefly) but your manager gave permission - he doesn’t know that until you tell him.

If down the line the guy is asking stupid questions and wasting time with stuff that has already been clarified - like being able to drive at nsl etc... then you might want to escalate. At the moment though I don’t see a huge issue other than a bit of faff having to reply to the e-mail.

Stop talking common sense dowie!
 
Soldato
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If these are new then the manager who is monitoring this stuff probably just needs to be told X, Y etc.. aren’t an issue. Maybe he will still ask about not starting a shift until an hour later or using the company vehicle when on a weekend (though perhaps it will become clearer to him when it has just been moved briefly) but your manager gave permission - he doesn’t know that until you tell him.

If down the line the guy is asking stupid questions and wasting time with stuff that has already been clarified - like being able to drive at nsl etc... then you might want to escalate. At the moment though I don’t see a huge issue other than a bit of faff having to reply to the e-mail.
This. The manager sending the email is obviously the sort of person that wants you to go to your union, kick up a stink and basically he wants to spend his worklife arguing over things like this. Don't give him the option. Brush him off like the tool he is, get your line manager to put him in his place by subtly telling him this is all normal behaviour/previously approved etc. and enforcing the opinion that beyond your initial answers it won't be going any further. Ahh politics...
 
Soldato
Joined
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13,564
That’s just odd. Like say someone gets their mobile phone robbed by an agency cleaner and wants to ask them to check the cctv etc... having cameras doesn’t mean anyone is “spying” on you, they’re usually passive and require someone to took through a recording. I mean does he refuse to use the company e-mail system too and insist on using a personal e-mail?

Strange reply, contact cleaner comes in before we start, in just about get here when the cleaner is here.

Company email doesn't spy on you or feel like it. At one point we were part of a bigger parent company before he purchased it outright. You might have heard of them Dedicated Micros.
Anyway one day the new boss heard a rumour about people on there phones at work, so he said someone must have looked on the cameras to see that. So he unplugged them. He's happy for us to be on our phones, as long as the work is done he's happy.
I can sit on the internet as i am right this second for instance.
 
Soldato
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So mentioned it with my manager during a conversation about a incident repair / isolation requirement for next week and he’s had a similar report for every member of the team, mine was quite tame.

One of the boys was reported for driving off road...

He’s sent an email to our area manager,who’s legendary. So expect a interesting message being sent to hr.

Nothing to worry about manager seems to have our backs.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Posts
2,677
I think it is a bit premature to panic and want to get a union involved. Nothing has even happened, yet. Some manager has asked some questions, all of which you have reasonable explanations for, so just reply to the questions and copy in your manager.

If these are new then the manager who is monitoring this stuff probably just needs to be told X, Y etc.. aren’t an issue. Maybe he will still ask about not starting a shift until an hour later or using the company vehicle when on a weekend (though perhaps it will become clearer to him when it has just been moved briefly) but your manager gave permission - he doesn’t know that until you tell him.

If down the line the guy is asking stupid questions and wasting time with stuff that has already been clarified - like being able to drive at nsl etc... then you might want to escalate. At the moment though I don’t see a huge issue other than a bit of faff having to reply to the e-mail.
disagree with this to be honest.

IMO if a new monitoring system has been put in like this then the guy checking and asking questions should know his stuff BEFORE he send official emails out to people and start threatening to send information to line managers etc.

sounds like a mini Hitler to me and he is likely to get people quiting etc with this kind of approach.
 
Caporegime
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26,271
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Essex
Hi guys,

Just want some clarification/common sense before I go to my union at work.

I work for a reasonable sized company, general staff drive liveried vans/pickups management/ fixed site staff have company cars.

Last month my pick-up was equipped with a black box telemetry unit, we were told that these units were designed to only monitor our driving for insurance and safety.

Que this morning I have received an email from a random manager stating the following:
* I have repeatedly done 60mph on nsl roads, my pickup is registered as a dual purpose vehicle so has same speed limits as a car.
* engine was switched on and van moved on the weekend when not on call, had to move van off drive for delivery. Literally moved it 10 yards.
* van was sat idling on site for 4 hours, said site has no power supply and was charging all my test equipment and laptop.
* van wasn’t started or moved till 9 am yesterday, I am contracted 8-4 but previous day had done a 16 hour shift, which my boss lets us have a relaxed early morning start the next day.

The knob has said he will be forwarding this information to my line manager and network engineering.

Pretty sure none of the above is in the agreed scope of the original installation bar the speed in the nsl.

Also got a bitchy reply back when I asked if the company cars have had telemetry boxes fitted, as these are under the same insurance and aren’t limited.

Questioning whether to go to my union about this?

Any suggestions

Let him raise it to your manager and let your manager take it up with him. Not sure why a fleet manager with no idea of your working conditions/hours etc would feel they have the right to question these things.

So mentioned it with my manager during a conversation about a incident repair / isolation requirement for next week and he’s had a similar report for every member of the team, mine was quite tame.

One of the boys was reported for driving off road...

He’s sent an email to our area manager,who’s legendary. So expect a interesting message being sent to hr.

Nothing to worry about manager seems to have our backs.

Thought you'd be alright, just sounds like a little jobsworth getting ideas above his station.

I'd still consider speaking to union about someone who is not your line manager making threats over information that they should be clarifying with your line manager instead.
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Apr 2014
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18,632
Location
Aberdeen
Que this morning I have received an email from a random manager stating the following:
* I have repeatedly done 60mph on nsl roads, my pickup is registered as a dual purpose vehicle so has same speed limits as a car.

"I'm pleased that the device shows me driving at the legal speed for the road."

* engine was switched on and van moved on the weekend when not on call, had to move van off drive for delivery. Literally moved it 10 yards.

"As I'm sure you're aware, it is sometimes necessary to move vehicles small distances to make room for other vehicles. In this case..."

* van was sat idling on site for 4 hours, said site has no power supply and was charging all my test equipment and laptop.

"As I'm sure you are aware, there was no power at the site so the vehicle was required to provide power for work devices."

* van wasn’t started or moved till 9 am yesterday, I am contracted 8-4 but previous day had done a 16 hour shift, which my boss lets us have a relaxed early morning start the next day.

"My manager will be pleased to advise you that this was with permission as I had worked 16 hours the previous day." (You might add Health & Safety requirements about rests between shifts.)
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Aug 2003
Posts
20,158
Location
Woburn Sand Dunes
Hi guys,

Just want some clarification/common sense before I go to my union at work.

I work for a reasonable sized company, general staff drive liveried vans/pickups management/ fixed site staff have company cars.

Last month my pick-up was equipped with a black box telemetry unit, we were told that these units were designed to only monitor our driving for insurance and safety.

Que this morning I have received an email from a random manager stating the following:
* I have repeatedly done 60mph on nsl roads, my pickup is registered as a dual purpose vehicle so has same speed limits as a car.
* engine was switched on and van moved on the weekend when not on call, had to move van off drive for delivery. Literally moved it 10 yards.
* van was sat idling on site for 4 hours, said site has no power supply and was charging all my test equipment and laptop.
* van wasn’t started or moved till 9 am yesterday, I am contracted 8-4 but previous day had done a 16 hour shift, which my boss lets us have a relaxed early morning start the next day.

The knob has said he will be forwarding this information to my line manager and network engineering.

Pretty sure none of the above is in the agreed scope of the original installation bar the speed in the nsl.

Also got a bitchy reply back when I asked if the company cars have had telemetry boxes fitted, as these are under the same insurance and aren’t limited.

Questioning whether to go to my union about this?

Any suggestions

Let him. You report to your line manager, not him. It's what your LM gets paid for.
 
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