Fairness issue at work

[Puzzled]

They used the "its only for insurance purposes, you won't even notice it" on us at my last place of work. Over the next 12 months they became increasingly petty about everything (speeding, idling, fuel consumption, travel times, start / finish times etc).

Made my job increasingly stressful and felt like everything we did was being tracked (had trackers in our tablets / phones as well), any goodwill for the company went out the window as why should we go the extra mile when they would moan at us for tiny little things. Would even get speeding warnings for going over 5mph in car parks, anything over 10% was treated as a serious incident.

Btw don't be surprised if they start monitoring your travel times to and from site. We had an enforced personal travel time of 1.5 hours to site from home (each way) which before trackers you could easily incorporate in to your working day, after tracking not so easy. It one of those things where it was understood that everyone did it and funnily enough after they started moaning all our stats dropped as no-one wanted to squeeze in an extra job that would increase the travel time home so you'd just drag out the current job.

About half the team left (including myself) as it became too much hassle, no one wants to work for a company that gives you no flexibility in letting you manage your own day.

 

[dowie]

Strange reply, contact cleaner comes in before we start, in just about get here when the cleaner is here.

Company email doesn't spy on you or feel like it. At one point we were part of a bigger parent company before he purchased it outright. You might have heard of them Dedicated Micros.
Anyway one day the new boss heard a rumour about people on there phones at work, so he said someone must have looked on the cameras to see that. So he unplugged them. He's happy for us to be on our phones, as long as the work is done he's happy.
I can sit on the internet as i am right this second for instance.

Why strange? Someone leaves something on their desk by mistake, it is gone in the morning, they'd probably want to check the CCTV. Ditto to company equipment going missing or indeed the office being broken into or an unauthorised person gaining acres etc..etc.. Company e-mail is also accessible if needed, it doesn't mean someone necessarily has the time or inclination to actively monitor it - it certainly can be used to "spy" on you.

As for being able to use the internet I'm not sure what that has to do with the presence of CCTV? And likewise if you're using a company computer/network then it certainly doesn't require CCTV for them to be able to check what websites you've been accessing and when, if they were even bothered in the first place...

 

[robj20]

Why strange? Someone leaves something on their desk by mistake, it is gone in the morning, they'd probably want to check the CCTV. Ditto to company equipment going missing or indeed the office being broken into or an unauthorised person gaining acres etc..etc.. Company e-mail is also accessible if needed, it doesn't mean someone necessarily has the time or inclination to actively monitor it - it certainly can be used to "spy" on you.

As for being able to use the internet I'm not sure what that has to do with the presence of CCTV? And likewise if you're using a company computer/network then it certainly doesn't require CCTV for them to be able to check what websites you've been accessing and when, if they were even bothered in the first place...

CCTV almost has nothing to do with my post it was more the unplugging of it was to show how laid back some places are, not everywhere wants to monitor its staff. Usually the smaller places it seems. That's also the point of internet usage, our managers and directors are all very laid back, will come round talking showing you the latest funny videos on their phones, often just sit and talk rubbish for hours on end. I didn't mean my post to come across as a post about CCTV and its uses.

Where i work must be very different because i wouldn't think twice about leaving my phone in work even for a week, it would still be there when i got back, its just not that sort of place where things get stolen.

Back on topic, i don't understand why some places put such plans in place, it only makes your staff want to leave, unless that is the plan of course.

 

[FishFluff]

snip

Not trying to have a pop at you personally, but nowadays we'd call that kind of thing 'fraud'!

 

[Jean-F]

Not trying to have a pop at you personally, but nowadays we'd call that kind of thing 'fraud'!

I appreciate that, it was patently fraud then as well as it would be now, but we saw it as “mild deception”, which we hoped would go undetected.
Of course, the “mild deception” meant that the company was paying us for work that, although we’d done, we’d done not in the prescribed manner, and we’d taken subsistence payments for nights away, when in fact we’d been at home, so although it was fraud, it was fraud lite, but fraud nevertheless.

 

[Werewolf]

So mentioned it with my manager during a conversation about a incident repair / isolation requirement for next week and he’s had a similar report for every member of the team, mine was quite tame.

One of the boys was reported for driving off road...
.

Off road, or "off road" as in the app they're using to track the vehicles hasn't got the latest maps and is showing new bypasses, housing and industrial estates as not being there, thus off road?
One of the bypasses near me was there for about ~5 years before it appeared on a lot of satnav software and the default maps for my new phone showed me driving through a field last year (about 8 years after the road was built). Several of the new housing estates near me didn't show until long after the last house was built either, despite the fact they had people living in them - if people like the electrical contractors/national grid/bt had been tracked like your guys seem to be, they'd likely have all been shown as "off road".

Glad your manager seems to understand they're taking the mickey.

 

[JBuk]

I'd be replying to the email and copying my line manager in - better to bring it up yourself than let the numpty originator take the power - and explaining calmly and politely your reasoning you've put above. I'd also ask for the policy that restricts you from doing any of those things.

Yep I’d do that

Ensuring I was 100% within the law and any policies I would reply answering any of the concerns

1. From my understanding on a NSL road 60 mph is the legal limit for the type of vehicle I was driving , if this is incorrect could you please point me to the relevant limits ,thank you for bringing it to my attention
2. Explain as per your post
3. Again as per your post, the site has no mains power and the only way to complete my task that day on the customers site was to use the vans charging capabilities , if this is not appropriate could I be provided with the correct means to power my equipment incase of any other situations where this problem will occur
4. In the interests of health and safety permission was granted by my line manager to start at a later time as I had worked long hours the previous day which resulted in the need for a longer rest period to ensure I was fit for work that day

If hope these explanations are satisfactory and do not break any law, company procedures / policies or guidelines
If they do could you please forward me the relevant information so I can read through it and get an understanding to ensure I am fully compliant going forward



P.s. you are legally entitled to an 11 hr rest period between shifts, my employer states this in the handbook but there’s no guidelines for working long hours but generally if I work from 2pm to 6am (16hrs) I am usually not expected to return to work until 2 pm the day after to ensure I am fit for work

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I agree with MrBell, i'd answer all the questions to the "manager" exactly has you have here because all of that seems entirely reasonable imho.

Watch your back though, they are obviously picking over all the records over and above "insurance" use so no using the van to drop stuff off to the tip

why isn't the van being parked at work overnight?

 

[MonkeyBasher]

if the van is currently your responsibility at the weekend/overnight and they expect you to have it on your property and yet not move or use it I would politely tell they to make other arrangements or ask to discuss fees for parking there van on your property. General wear and tear on the drive and the nuisance of having to work around it plus it attracts the wrong element.

When companys start ******* employees around like this you always work to rule, cut them no slack at all. The soon realise how much more money its costing them.

 

[Minusorange]

speeding

Surely it's reasonable for the company to get on your backs for breaking the law on their time in their vehicles ?

Everything else though I agree

 

[Rroff]

Pickups are classed as dual purpose so have same speed limit as cars, if the pickup has rear seats with seat belts that are tested in a mot, then its dual purpose.

Was the guy not knowing his bloody job

What is the unladen weight? if it is over 2040kg (should be a sticker in driver side door) you still have to drive to the lower speed limit.

EDIT: Sticker might only refer load weights not vehicle weight.

 

[peterwalkley]

What is the unladen weight?

Is that for the African swallow or the European ?

 

[Spook187]

why isn't the van being parked at work overnight?

You take company vans home you know this day and age, how am I supposed to pick my van up from work, I don't own a car.

 

[Abraxaz1]

Off road as in the forestry commission, are pickups were ordered and designed for it ( 2 inch lift, diff locks, underbody protection and snorkel with breathers. They replaced the two battered defenders we had.

Two of our sites protective features are only accessible by off reading in the forest or a 6 mile walk with tools. Normally it's me.

It's all a bit silly

What is the unladen weight? if it is over 2040kg (should be a sticker in driver side door) you still have to drive to the lower speed limit.

EDIT: Sticker might only refer load weights not vehicle weight.

Toyota hilux gross weight 1950kg with rear seats checked on mot.

Had to get it double checked when I appealed against south Wales police year before last for doing 68 on a dual carriageway

 

[MikeTheNative]

You take company vans home you know this day and age, how am I supposed to pick my van up from work, I don't own a car.

It would be quite the commute for our Yorkshire based staff to park at HQ in South Wales.

 

[Werewolf]

Off road as in the forestry commission, are pickups were ordered and designed for it ( 2 inch lift, diff locks, underbody protection and snorkel with breathers. They replaced the two battered defenders we had.

Two of our sites protective features are only accessible by off reading in the forest or a 6 mile walk with tools. Normally it's me.

It's all a bit silly


Toyota hilux gross weight 1950kg with rear seats checked on mot.

Had to get it double checked when I appealed against south Wales police year before last for doing 68 on a dual carriageway

it sounds increasingly like the people monitoring the black boxes don't have a clue as to what they're doing, the law, the company policies, what your job is, what the vehicles are, or indeed what their job is.

Hopefully your area manager can give them a bit of an "education".

As others have said, if I worked for a company that expected me to take the vehicle home, and they kicked up a fuss because I started it up whilst it was "at home", i'd be telling them to either arrange for parking at a facility they are paying for, or to pay for me to have dedicated off road parking for it- it's taking the mickey in the extreme to expect someone to take a works vehicle home (as that's in the benefit of the company not the employee usually*) and then get annoyed because I had the gall to turn the engine on during that time. Even if you've got a long driveway most people have to shuffle vehicles around around, and if you park on the road there are a whole host of reasons you might need to move it (including instructions from the police, utilities or road repairs).


*Given it means the company doesn't have to pay for parking (often with security) at the office overnight for their vehicles, and parking in the day for the staff vehicles they use to get to work etc.

 

[dowie]

Ensuring I was 100% within the law and any policies I would reply answering any of the concerns

1. From my understanding on a NSL road 60 mph is the legal limit for the type of vehicle I was driving , if this is incorrect could you please point me to the relevant limits ,thank you for bringing it to my attention
2. Explain as per your post
3. Again as per your post, the site has no mains power and the only way to complete my task that day on the customers site was to use the vans charging capabilities , if this is not appropriate could I be provided with the correct means to power my equipment incase of any other situations where this problem will occur
4. In the interests of health and safety permission was granted by my line manager to start at a later time as I had worked long hours the previous day which resulted in the need for a longer rest period to ensure I was fit for work that day

If hope these explanations are satisfactory and do not break any law, company procedures / policies or guidelines
If they do could you please forward me the relevant information so I can read through it and get an understanding to ensure I am fully compliant going forward

I wouldn't, why antagonise things further by playing dumb and/or writing stuff that could just be taken sarcasm/a dig etc.. ?

We don't know the exact wording or context of the manager's e-mail, the OP pointing out that he was doing national speed limit and that his vehicle is allowed to do that speed is sufficient (maybe there is a fleet of vehicles some of which shouldn't etc..) - the extra "if this is incorrect..." is just a pointless dig if the OP is already well aware that it is correct.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

They used the "its only for insurance purposes, you won't even notice it" on us at my last place of work. Over the next 12 months they became increasingly petty about everything (speeding, idling, fuel consumption, travel times, start / finish times etc).

Made my job increasingly stressful and felt like everything we did was being tracked (had trackers in our tablets / phones as well), any goodwill for the company went out the window as why should we go the extra mile when they would moan at us for tiny little things. Would even get speeding warnings for going over 5mph in car parks, anything over 10% was treated as a serious incident.

Btw don't be surprised if they start monitoring your travel times to and from site. We had an enforced personal travel time of 1.5 hours to site from home (each way) which before trackers you could easily incorporate in to your working day, after tracking not so easy. It one of those things where it was understood that everyone did it and funnily enough after they started moaning all our stats dropped as no-one wanted to squeeze in an extra job that would increase the travel time home so you'd just drag out the current job.

About half the team left (including myself) as it became too much hassle, no one wants to work for a company that gives you no flexibility in letting you manage your own day.

Yikes.... almost like being in a work camp at that rate....being watched constantly.

I'd rather just leave instead of put up with that kind of crapp.

 

[mmj_uk]

With lots of jobs today people are increasingly being treated like robots, you can only do exactly what we tell you to, you can't do anything we don't tell you to. Any breach of this will be treated as severe until you are successfully programmed, so basically like EU style top-down control of everything but in the work place, fancy that.

 

[Nasher]

Some jobsworth on a power trip with their new toys.

A friend had issues like this with a tracked work van. Eventually he either just ignored it or told them to go away. Nothing happened as he wasn't actually doing anything wrong (they can't sack you for moving a vehicle 10 yards). If line managers are getting bombarded with stupid **** from the people doing the monitoring it's not going anywhere.

They may also be in breach of GDPR if they are spying on you this closely. Despite what a contract may say or who owns the vehicle.