Fallout 4 to feature Nvidia Gameworks

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I'll just leave this here, needs a lot of work but.... yeah

No NV PhysX was used during this production.

Don't scream at me i'm just a hobbyist.

Did that use bullet physics (or whatever) like the other stuff you did or did you actually write you own physics engine?

Otherwise it seems a bit like asking why Battlefront used the Frostbite engine when you can do it yourself (using the CryEngine). Swapping one for another doesn't really seem to prove the point that you don't need one.

 

[muziqaz]

I'll just leave this here, needs a lot of work but.... yeah

No NV PhysX was used during this production.

Don't scream at me i'm just a hobbyist.

well, except for the cloth (when grenading next to it), everything else looks much better than majority of the so called triple A games with those fancy physx APIs.

 

[tommybhoy]

it seems a bit like asking why Battlefront used the Frostbite engine when you can do it yourself (using the CryEngine). Swapping one for another doesn't really seem to prove the point that you don't need one.

I thought it was more an exercise in whether there is a *need* for gpu acceleration, not what engine is used.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I thought it was more an exercise in whether there is a *need* for gpu acceleration, not what engine is used.

Ah, maybe I misunderstood the point of the exercise then.
I thought the point was that devs don't need to use 3rd party libraries.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I loved FO3 and that still isn't 100% stable.

I think my last playthrough of FO3 must have been at least a few years after it was out, still crashed near constantly.

Got me a nice SM951 though... I'm like 99% expecting FO 4 to crash constantly but praying it will be a nice quick load into the game like previous games, helped by awesome SSD speeds.

Thing is they fixed a lot of actual bugs like, mission X won't complete or mission Y instead of giving you a reward kills your mother. Bugs that prevented you moving forwards or quests not doing what they should, but they never seemed to fix general engine level stability issues. From day one it was like, it kinda works, it loads quickly, lets get to work on the next buggy mess of a game. If FO 3 didn't load quickly into the game, had 12 unskippable intro vids, lame menu animations taking more time and a long load into the game I'd never have come close to finishing the game.

Actually that might be the most worrying thing about game works, potentially crap unskippable intro videos. Gameworks/Nvidia games tend to be intro video heavy.

 

[Howling]

I thought it was You don't need gimpworks or physX... ;D

 

[tommybhoy]

Ah, maybe I misunderstood the point of the exercise then.
I thought the point was that devs don't need to use 3rd party libraries.

Maybe you didn't and I did coz it was one of your obfuscating the subject type posts, who knows whether I need a , , or for this post coz I'm now.

 

[arc@css]

Got me a nice SM951

I'm buying another drive soon and I'm very temped by the PCI-e SSD's. Some of the prices are becoming more reasonable now too.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I'm buying another drive soon and I'm very temped by the PCI-e SSD's. Some of the prices are becoming more reasonable now too.

I sure as heck wouldn't pay silly money for one, 110 or something for a 256GB was just about acceptable and largely because I've been on a 2500k for so long I felt like treating myself. Went from a 2500k system to 5820k with the ssd as well. Haven't upgraded anything but GPU in ages.

256GB is enough for usually my most played current/new games played on it, 3-4 50gb games and windows. Keep older games on slower storage. 128gb is fairly small as games are often in the 25-50gb range, 512gb is paying an awful lot for something that will be cheaper in a couple of years.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I thought it was You don't need gimpworks or physX... ;D

Well that, but in terms of a Bethesda game and constant crashing, I take the crashing as a near certainty.... time back into game is the most important factor of a Bethesda game because you damn well know you'll load it 20 times a day.

 

[Seanspeed]

Hmm, smoke and small crumbly bricks.

Not sure dude. If you compare Mirror's Edge with or without it actually looks like a different game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0xRJt8rcmY

Ooooh, cool. Still haven't played this yet. Looks great.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Hmm, smoke and small crumbly bricks.

Not sure dude. If you compare Mirror's Edge with or without it actually looks like a different game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0xRJt8rcmY

Isn't that largely because without physx it's just one of the most empty and plain looking games possible, on purpose. This is one of the gripes with gameworks. If that was any standard game of the time vs those physx effects it would be not at all impressive.

This is what they do, take standard game, remove any 'modern' effects taking it back to the look of a 5-10 year old game, re-add effects under gameworks(or whatever they were called at that time) and show the night and day difference. It's so disingenuous, the early part of that video the non physx has AA off, amongst other bog standard things missing and adds one entire piece of hanging cloth, second video, one translucent piece of what plastic, zomg. It's an exceptionally bland game to begin with which makes the incredibly few bits added in stand out more, but as usual it's removing a lot of standard effects. I mean the cloth is near useless, the glass hangs around on the floor but explodes the same as non physx glass and the glass itself while on the floor looks terrible and unrealistic.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Mirror's Edge, Batman, Alice Madness returns, Borderlands were great examples of PhysX and I really felt it improved the games.

Thing is physx has been around for how long, and that is the list and most of them are poor examples.

Just Cause 2 had better destruction and physical effects, combining items and it used havok, physx just for the water.

Mirror's edge, sorry, looks a joke, it is and was a technical demo for physx, empty world, empty gameplay, empty look to stick in a few pieces of cloth and a few bits of debris, the cloth looks bad, the glass looks awful. It's awful graphics for the era. Batman was buggy and meh, again doing very little other games didn't. In almost every case it's removing effects we have in other games to add them in and the contrast of nothing vs physx is bigger than normal in other games vs physx. Volumetric smoke, missing but there under physx. debris blowing in the wind, little chunks of wall falling out.

Not played Alice, the rest aren't good examples of anything but Nvidia paying to make the difference look bigger than it really is. Ignoring that many of the effects were buggy, the performance loss to use them vs the performance loss using normal versions of the same effects. Borderlands, bullets on the floor, once again a case of fairly simple effects missing as standard and put back in.

 

[humbug]

Did that use bullet physics (or whatever) like the other stuff you did or did you actually write you own physics engine?

Otherwise it seems a bit like asking why Battlefront used the Frostbite engine when you can do it yourself (using the CryEngine). Swapping one for another doesn't really seem to prove the point that you don't need one.

No i didn't program a new kind of Physics, like 90% of real Game developers (which i'm not) i used existing systems, in this case Bullet, if i did create my own Physics engine i'd be one of a very select few and probably famous. Lets be clear here i'm not even a promotional dev, i think that speaks more about how much vendor specific Physics libraries are "a need".

well, except for the cloth (when grenading next to it), everything else looks much better than majority of the so called triple A games with those fancy physx APIs.

Thank you

The whole lot is a work in progress, not least the cloth, i can get it to behave in the same way with a bit more tweaking. i've done it before but lost the work in a HDD failure.

PS: Battlefront uses HAVOC, Bullet is better

 

[opethdisciple]

Thing is physx has been around for how long, and that is the list and most of them are poor examples.

Just Cause 2 had better destruction and physical effects, combining items and it used havok, physx just for the water.

Mirror's edge, sorry, looks a joke, it is and was a technical demo for physx, empty world, empty gameplay, empty look to stick in a few pieces of cloth and a few bits of debris, the cloth looks bad, the glass looks awful. It's awful graphics for the era. Batman was buggy and meh, again doing very little other games didn't. In almost every case it's removing effects we have in other games to add them in and the contrast of nothing vs physx is bigger than normal in other games vs physx. Volumetric smoke, missing but there under physx. debris blowing in the wind, little chunks of wall falling out.

Not played Alice, the rest aren't good examples of anything but Nvidia paying to make the difference look bigger than it really is. Ignoring that many of the effects were buggy, the performance loss to use them vs the performance loss using normal versions of the same effects. Borderlands, bullets on the floor, once again a case of fairly simple effects missing as standard and put back in.

What your describing is precomputed physics vs Nvidia's Physx which is dynamic gpu accelerated physics. Very different beasts.

 

[mahius]

Well as long as this doesn't do an Arkham Knight, I can be confident it'll play well on my 970. And this does seem to suggest slightly better optimization for NV cards.

 

[layte]

Saw this on reddit and just had to post it.

http://gifyu.com/images/rsz_vllehho.jpg

They forgot "Wave Works: Realistic salt water waves powered by the tears of AMD fanboys"

 

[Seanspeed]

This is what they do, take standard game, remove any 'modern' effects taking it back to the look of a 5-10 year old game, re-add effects under gameworks(or whatever they were called at that time) and show the night and day difference. It's so disingenuous, the early part of that video the non physx has AA off, amongst other bog standard things missing and adds one entire piece of hanging cloth, second video, one translucent piece of what plastic, zomg. It's an exceptionally bland game to begin with which makes the incredibly few bits added in stand out more, but as usual it's removing a lot of standard effects. I mean the cloth is near useless, the glass hangs around on the floor but explodes the same as non physx glass and the glass itself while on the floor looks terrible and unrealistic.

Your opinion. I think the cloth physics look fantastic. And not because of the comparison, just in general, it looks good. The glass shatters look great, too.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Your opinion. I think the cloth physics look fantastic. And not because of the comparison, just in general, it looks good. The glass shatters look great, too.

I actually agree that the cloth physics did look pretty nice but I also agree it's kind of a tech demo sort of game. Not played it properly myself but it's practically on rails and scripted so putting a few things in here and there that isn't on the other versions is going to look better. I imagine no matter how many times you play it the helicopter that comes and pops a hole in the cloth is going to look the same every time for example, not properly rendering or generating shots from other locations (could be wrong there so feel free to show me if I am).

But yeah, when they simply remove the flags / cloth from the other side and just leave it empty then then that does seem to defeat the point of showing off the elements. We can still have a flag or a bit of glass on AMD cards too and have the physx ones look better but that they removed it altogether highlights they had to extend the visual difference even further and a bit of effort on there own side would have made it look far less different. This is like saying if Nvidia had some fire effects it's awesome and makes a huge difference but the other side simply hasn't got the fire effects so it's good but it's nothing you can even fairly compare to what it could have been like.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

They forgot "Wave Works: Realistic salt water waves powered by the tears of AMD fanboys"

Waveworks is vendor neutral as the calculations are done on the CPU. Ofc there will be some extra GPU load but due extra effects/tessellation.