FIA Formula E Championship

[Glaucus]

Hefty price tag but

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703386704576186882013351002.html

Bet teslas 2nd car comes in 300,230 and 160 mile range variants. Tesla is also one of the manufactures looking at battery swapping

 

[Glaucus]

energy bills are already expected to rise by £300 a year ... i dont see how we can ever affored as a nation to have millions of electric cars on the road unless we buld a bunch of nuclear power stations, all this windfarm nonse needs to stop

and how can we afford petrol? And that's also rising. Yes it will require huge investment in new power stations. But that's already happening.
Oh and renewable energy now accounts for more than 10% of our national grid and will be at least 20% by 2020, so hardly a waste of time.

 

[Glaucus]

i can't realy talk due to the mass of vomit out of my mouth after reading the first post..........

Why what is wrong with an electric series, what have you got against it.

 

[FreeStream]

Average is 10 swaps per year, so some will use more some will use less. According to a study. So the 81 batteries per station is the correct number. The average takes into account heavy drivers. Add to the fact that it charges up in 8hours. Means you could theoretically slice that in 3 but demand won't be equal.
why 50. You could do a 70+ mile commute and still be fully recharge by the time you want to return home.
You have to remember you aren't a typical user.

The average commute is just 8.5miles in the uk.

Some of the soon to be release cars have a 125 mile book value, well have to wait to see what real world usage is, but someone like you wouldn't be an early adopter anyway, so the chances are high that distance will be increased anyway.

It would also be nice in city's, think how clean the air would be, with out all the carbon particulates and other compounds. Sod co2, look at real pollutants and energy security and economy if we get on board early. Shame uk is already behind and getting further behind every year.

So that's 10 swaps due to being empty per year? Seems fair enough given the average commute.

Most of my concerns just need the time for development, but as a petrol head I don't like the idea .

 

[Kerming]

Why what is wrong with an electric series, what have you got against it.

the only reason why people go and see motorsport is the sound, the speed and when you take away the drama...........it dies.....nobody is intrested in electric powered racing cars........there's no drama. just a quite hummm.....

 

[Glaucus]

So that's 10 swaps due to being empty per year? Seems fair enough given the average commute.

Most of my concerns about the tech need the time to be sorted and I am interested in how they do it.

I recon motorway service stations are where the most battery swaps will occur, just because of the nature of motorway journeys.

Yep and I agree, wouldnt be surprised if 90+% of long journeys include a hefty motorway section.
It's also why they have started to installed recharge points across the motorway network.

 

[Glaucus]

the only reason why people go and see motorsport is the sound, the speed and when you take away the drama...........it dies.....nobody is intrested in electric powered racing cars........there's no drama. just a quite hummm.....

People go for only the sound, really and you seriouse.
How is the drama taken away, how is the speed taken away.

 

[FreeStream]

Yep and I agree, wouldnt be surprised if 90+% of long journeys include a hefty motorway section.
It's also why they have started to installed recharge points across the motorway network.

Recharge points? Seriously?

Why even bother on a motorway?



Motorway stations need battery swapping, not recharge points. Even with the best tech in the world your not going to dump 30kWh into something in 5 minutes!

Who thought that would be a good idea?

 

[Glaucus]

Recharge points? Seriously?

Why even bother on a motorway?

So early adopters can go further although it adds some time to the journey. Remember fast charge is 20mins for 80% iirc and fully charged in 1hour.
Early adopters are unlikely to do long distances regally. But charging points give you a long range for a 20min top up. Especially good on the renaults, where you rent the battery, so life is a non issue.

 

[FreeStream]

So early adopters can go further although it adds some time to the journey. Remember super fast charge is 20mins for 80% iirc and fully charged in 1hour.

Christ, I can't imagine the batteries can do that too often!

I can't find any figures for range at 70MPH, do you know of any?

Going to work out how long it would take vs my current trips to do it in an electric car

 

[Glaucus]

Christ, I can't imagine the batteries can do that too often!

I can't find any figures for range at 70MPH, do you know of any?

Going to work out how long it would take vs my current trips to do it in an electric car

You'll be surprised, with modern battery management, where it measures voltage and temp across each cell, fast charging is not the massive problem it use to be. But it does still shorten the life span.

Off a random forum for a Nissan leaf

70mph > 3.5 miles / kWh > 84 miles of range
I used cruise control on 101 (which is completely flat) tonight when going home.
I exited after about 6 miles with an average mileage of 3.5 miles / kWh.
Assuming the 24kWh battery capacity, that's 84 miles of range (climate control off).

 

[FreeStream]

You'll be surprised, with modern battery management, where it measures voltage and temp across each cell, fast charging is not the massive problem it use to be. But it does still shorten the life span.

I know about these modern techniques, I read about something similar which is used in Apple's devices. But still the energy pouring into them

6 miles isn't exactly a long a trip, another site said a range of ~70 ish at 70, which is surprising given Nissan say 73 miles at 55mph.

Going to be a looooong time before I consider buying one tho.

 

[Glaucus]

Going to be a while before I even consider buying one so I'll let them get on with it

the price would put most people off alone, let alone the other issues. But new tech is always ridiculously expensive and as they say you have to start somewhere.

 

[arknor]

and how can we afford petrol? And that's also rising. Yes it will require huge investment in new power stations. But that's already happening.
Oh and renewable energy now accounts for more than 10% of our national grid and will be at least 20% by 2020, so hardly a waste of time.

yea and renewable energy is the reason our energy bills are expected to rise by 300 a year

 

[Glaucus]

yea and renewable energy is the reason our energy bills are expected to rise by 300 a year

Better that, than having a £2000 increase in the future and power cuts as countries have shut are oil/gas/coal supplies down, becuase they need it for themselves, or charge us insane amounts for it,

Oh and it's not a year it's £300 by 2020

Energy bills could increase by £300 as a result of the Government’s own green policies and it’s been argued by the senior policy advisor to the Prime Minister that claims by the Department of Energy & Climate Change that price increases of 30% by 2020 would be offset by lower consumption were less than convincing.

And has more to do with carbon tax and other stuff than simply just building renewable energies.

Hardly massive amounts, especially with inflation.

By 2020 we are meant to reduce national grid usage by 20% over coming much of that cost anyway.
As I have said in other threads, this is what we have signed upto and something we are not on target for. Expect more legislation like banning of normal light bulls in the coming years.

The EU recently issued a goal of reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by 20% below the levels of 1990 by the year 2020, to increase energy production from renewable sources to 20% and to reduce overall energy use by 20%

 

[clv101]

Not many people will buy these first gen electric cars, I expect it'll be more than a decade before regular people seriously consider therm.

However, as I said above, over the coming decades I expect the car ownership model to transition away from the current one of private ownership, where people's cars a compromised jack of all trades. Neither ideal for the 10 mile commute or the 400 mile family camping trip and inefficiently used, spending ~95% of their time parked up unused. Towards a model of service provision. Pay your monthly change and have a fleet of vehicles available to you, with awkward ownership, maintenance etc. issues all covered.

 

[clv101]

yea and renewable energy is the reason our energy bills are expected to rise by 300 a year

It's really not as simple as that. See this article:
http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/why-wind-cutting-energy-costs

Renewables (like nuclear) have a low marginal cost. Low marginal cost generation capacity makes high marginal cost capacity (gas for example) unprofitable.

This chart explains it:

The more MWh are needed, the higher marginal cost, more expensive generation kick in and sets the price all generators receive (and we pay). By adding, even a small amount of renewables (with close to zero marginal cost) the whole curve gets pushed to the right, meaning the price is set a little lower for all generators and all MWh. Compare 'Price A' with 'Price B' in the chart on the right.

It's all about the marginal cost.

 

[godinman]

On topic (shocking, I know), I'm really excited by this electric race thing, any news on team budgets and the like? Say compared to the equivalent petrol F* league?

Also, I'm confused by the power output, it says -

'Max power in/out at the shafts: 300kW (limited to ~170kW max output)'

Er, what does this mean exactly?

 

[Duke]

Come again?

Don't feed the troll

 

[Skeeter]

Red through briefly

Kerming: LUL WUT?

AH2: Sound is a massive part of F1 for me and many fans. The sound of the first F1 car of the weekend echoing through the hills at Spa makes my neck hairs stick up. Infact its a major part of a lot of motor sports. Electric racing would loose that 'something' by being quiet. However, to what extent this effects viewers is as yet unknown. Its also worth nothing that racing drivers find it difficult to drive electric cars fast as the sound of the engine provides a lot of information about speed and acceleration, etc. It is something that needs to be tested to see what effect no sound has.

Arknor: If the Government stopped pandering to the hippies and just built the massive off shore wind farms they would like to, then Electricity supply wouldn't be an issue.