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Fidelity Super Resolution in 2021

how not to be emotional, when they're blinded to a point where they think this studio, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streum_On_Studio, is better at freaking Rockstar Games when it comes to TAA implementation

TAA implementation in RDR 2 is perfect. It cleans up the image and produces a smooth looking image overall. Even PS4 somewhat looks okay. It looks blurry, because that's a cost players and Rockstar had to pay, there's no perfect solution. Most of TAA games released in past 3 years are looking blurry. Name a single game that can rival RDR 2's graphics and uses TAA in a way that image looks sharp/clean/good or name a single game that can rival RDR 2's graphics without any TAA at all. You can't.

Those who are not blurry are engines that were inherited from forward rendered era, so their developers only used TAA as a soft pass to clear up jaggies here and there. In such games, you can practically disable TAA and the engine will run fine.

Once you pack in more details like in Avengers, RDR 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Battlefield 5, Battlefront 2, Doom Eternal and such, you can't simply have the sharp looking TAA that "Necromunda" game has. Its literally impossible. You can't have perfect solutions, you have to pay some costs here and there. And cost for TAA in these games results a blurry output for the majority of mainstream resolutions. Only at 4K these games truly do shine, due to raw pixel information fed to the monstrous TAA they use.
 
oguzsoso said:
yeah, you have lots of clues to yourself apparently, since you have the audacity to compare necromunda, ps3 era level of graphics game to rdr 2, one of the games that pushed current gen's graphics to its boundaries thanks to the benefits of heavy usage of TAA for reconstructing lots of stuff
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TAA is not reconstructing anything really.
Plus you can believe anything you want about the quality of TAA on Marvel Avengers. But look here, right at the start, look at that person's hair and you will see how bad is artifacting on native. There is good TAA and there is bad TAA. MA has bad TAA.
 
oguzsoso said:
(snip lots of opinion and zero facts]
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That's not how TAA works and what it does. It's anti-aliasing, its only job is to remove jaggies from edges. That's it. If it's introducing ghosting (particularly bad like in Avengers) - that's a bad implementation, period. When DLSS has same ghosting issues - NVIDIA is working hard to fix it (and supposedly finally have), without such excuses as you try to give to TAA. If you do not realise that - DLSS works on a very similar principle to TAA, hence it had initially same issues. Also, I did NOT make comparisons you mention - that's all your own invention there, mate. It's called strawman, and this is not how we communicate on this forum.

Now, the topic is about FSR - FSR depends on a good input image. Garbage in = garbage out. Hence, devs of other games few times already said they either fixed TAA and implemented a better version of it (without horrible ghosting like in Avengers) or they made a few other changes in their engines, to clear up the image for FSR to look good. And that was my point. The rest are just your emotions blinding you as you jump to defend corporation for some reason - I can't even tell which one from your stream of words.
 
oguzsoso said:
how not to be emotional, when they're blinded to a point where they think this studio, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streum_On_Studio, is better at freaking Rockstar Games when it comes to TAA implementation

TAA implementation in RDR 2 is perfect. It cleans up the image and produces a smooth looking image overall. Even PS4 somewhat looks okay. It looks blurry, because that's a cost players and Rockstar had to pay, there's no perfect solution. Most of TAA games released in past 3 years are looking blurry. Name a single game that can rival RDR 2's graphics and uses TAA in a way that image looks sharp/clean/good or name a single game that can rival RDR 2's graphics without any TAA at all. You can't.

Those who are not blurry are engines that were inherited from forward rendered era, so their developers only used TAA as a soft pass to clear up jaggies here and there. In such games, you can practically disable TAA and the engine will run fine.

Once you pack in more details like in Avengers, RDR 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Battlefield 5, Battlefront 2, Doom Eternal and such, you can't simply have the sharp looking TAA that "Necromunda" game has. Its literally impossible. You can't have perfect solutions, you have to pay some costs here and there. And cost for TAA in these games results a blurry output for the majority of mainstream resolutions. Only at 4K these games truly do shine, due to raw pixel information fed to the monstrous TAA they use.
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Maybe I missed the memo but I don't remember rockstar games being some sort of benchmark for perfect video games graphics. So what are you on about perfect implementation and acting like rockstar can do no wrong when it comes to graphics.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
Maybe I missed the memo but I don't remember rockstar games being some sort of benchmark for perfect video games graphics. So what are you on about perfect implementation and acting like rockstar can do no wrong when it comes to graphics.
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I think you probably did miss the memo. GTAV and RDR2 definitely standout as benchmark titles for video game graphics.
 
Tinek said:
The clear summary of the Avengers and TAA used in it (which looks only worse with FSR but has nothing to do with FSR as such), as Tim himself said, is that TAA in that game is just horrible and devs should fix it. Part of the FidelityFX is a much better TAA implementation and devs already added FSR to it, which means they have 0 excuse not to use that TAA either - it would improve image quality considerably on ALL GPUs, not just AMD. And of course, it would make FSR much better in motion too. This is a clear case of - the problem isn't with FSR, the problem is with devs implementing bad AA solutions in their games, which spoil the image quality even in native.
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That's what I've been saying for multiple posts. FSR requires the developer to put in more work than we were led to first believe, unless they are happy to answer to a horde of FSR fans who will make posts like "lazy devs, FSR isnt bad, this game is bad"

DLSS is a lazier implementation that "just works" better than FSR and doesn't require bespoke changes to the game's render pipeline

Maybe the horde of FSR fans will convince developers to make their games look better at native so that FSR doesn't look bad, hopefully - as that will benefit everyone, even those who don't use FSR. But I doubt they will, they are lazy and time restricted - it would be better if AMD just updates FSR to use a custom AA reconstruction.

If you want a quick example of this, the default implementation of Anti Aliasing in the Unity game engine (which lots of games use) looks quite bad when you enable FSR on top of it. So now you're asking developers to make changes to the Unity engine to implement a new AA method or asking for the base game engine to be changed - AMD would have better luck just doing their own AA.
 
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Chuk_Chuk said:
Maybe I missed the memo but I don't remember rockstar games being some sort of benchmark for perfect video games graphics. So what are you on about perfect implementation and acting like rockstar can do no wrong when it comes to graphics.
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Red dead 2 is 100% a benchmark for videogames graphics.
 
Grim5 said:
That's what I've been saying for multiple posts. FSR requires the developer to put in more work than we were led to first believe, unless they are happy to answer to a horde of FSR fans who will make posts like "lazy devs, FSR isnt bad, this game is bad"

DLSS is a lazier implementation that "just works" better than FSR and doesn't require bespoke changes to the game's render pipeline

Maybe the horde of FSR fans will convince developers to make their games look better at native so that FSR doesn't look bad, hopefully - as that will benefit everyone, even those who don't use FSR. But I doubt they will, they are lazy and time restricted - it would be better if AMD just updates FSR to use a custom AA reconstruction
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DLSS always required more effort till very recently, where NVIDIA worked on proper plugins. As far as I could see (I am not a dev myself), it makes it much easier to implement indeed, but the whole game still needs to be able to feed it data properly, so some changes are still needed if the game hasn't been prepared with it in mind from the start but it's been added later. Same if devs want to add TAA later, after the game's been made without it in mind, as input data is very similar for both of these technologies. And of course, this only applies if devs use engines with proper DLSS (and now FSR too) plugins - otherwise it's still a big pain to implement DLSS.

Changes for FSR shouldn't be really needed in the first place - if TAA in the game is bad, it should be improved even without FSR. I mean, people are playing that product and if it's ghosting like mad even in native, that's really bad for everyone. I still remember when TAA came to the market and it was ghosting and blurring things like mad - there was big uproar, then it just died and people learned to accept it as it comes, mostly. Now we can see even bigger uproar about supposedly FSR mangling image quality, when in fact it's usually just bad input image, caused often by bad TAA implementation. Same old problem, coming back yet fingers pointed at wrong culprit. I indeed hope some more pressure on devs will fix TAA, as it's often the case I just disable it and force MLAA or similar through drivers, for things to look better.
 
Hedge said:
I think you probably did miss the memo. GTAV and RDR2 definitely standout as benchmark titles for video game graphics.
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Did GTA V get some sort of graphics upgrade?

Also are people ( the person who originally peaked my question) confusing artistic achievements with technical achievements?
 
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LtMatt said:
I really can’t fathom why this thread makes people so emotional on both sides.
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Nothing new it happened with GSync v Freesync, Nvidia 3D v 2D, IPS v VA.....

"It's the old, old story; droid meets droid, droid becomes chameleon, droid loses chameleon, chameleon turns into blob, droid gets blob back again, blob meets blob, blob goes off with blob and droid loses blob, chameleon and droid. How many times have we seen that story?"
 
varkanoid said:
Nothing new it happened with GSync v Freesync, Nvidia 3D v 2D, IPS v VA.....

"It's the old, old story; droid meets droid, droid becomes chameleon, droid loses chameleon, chameleon turns into blob, droid gets blob back again, blob meets blob, blob goes off with blob and droid loses blob, chameleon and droid. How many times have we seen that story?"
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CToQpAY.jpg

Classic :cry:
 
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