Fidelity Super Resolution in 2021

[nvidiamd]

If you look at one of my posts,its working on a GTX960.

There is nothing to be proud of, that card is above average on Dota2

 

[Steampunk]

Well ultimately the premise is that the more advanced versions of the tech will almost always lose out - that isn't really a positive ultimately.

Just because something is technically advanced, it doesn't mean it will be successful in the market. The fact that DLSS is limited to a very small subset of one vendor's high end cards pretty much ensures it will never become a dominant feature or the defacto standard. Nvidia keeps DLSS as a unique selling point to try to sell more of their own products, and that makes sure it can never be more than that as a presence in the market.

You should blame Nvidia for not releasing DLSS for the whole market, they are ensuring DLSS (and it's advanced tech) will lose out out in long run.

 

[SkeeterUK]

I was just thinking. FSR scales a low res image up yeah, so lets say a game that required 3gig of vram say x4 foundations. And you cant play cos of say laptop or a old 2gb card was used say a 670 2gb version and if u tried to play ud get some weird artifacts due to out of vram if u played normally those games on them cards. Could fsr help those play those games cos fsr could reduce vram usage and the 2gb cards would be ok on the 3gb min required game. Plus say cos of nvidia 8gb cards and they wanted to play 4k and games might want 9gb could fsr help those too. Be interesting if fsr helped in those situations.

 

[Rroff]

The problem with FSR will be the Ray Traced reflections. They were already looking worse on DLSS when compared with native, they will look even much worse when using FSR.

Any issues related to ray traced reflections will be due to temporal sampling which FSR currently doesn't do.

I was just thinking. FSR scales a low res image up yeah, so lets say a game that required 3gig of vram say x4 foundations. And you cant play cos of say laptop or a old 2gb card was used say a 670 2gb version and if u tried to play ud get some weird artifacts due to out of vram if u played normally those games on them cards. Could fsr help those play those games cos fsr could reduce vram usage and the 2gb cards would be ok on the 3gb min required game. Plus say cos of nvidia 8gb cards and they wanted to play 4k and games might want 9gb could fsr help those too. Be interesting if fsr helped in those situations.

Should do - in CP2077 some parts at 4K with everything maxed will exceed the 8GB VRAM on my 3070FE native but drop just below 8GB with DLSS.

 

[0h_no_not_again]

Here's an open secret.

There's no such thing as AI, and no software can regenerate and evolve to re-write itself.

They are all just differing algorithms that use complex methods of interpolation and extrapolation to fill in the missing details.

The rest is marketing.

The term AI is a bit incorrect here, it should really be ML (Machine Learning).

The whole crux of this is whether or not a piece of software has been written through conventional methods and mathematics, or whether it is trained using data.

If it's trained using data, it falls into ML and if it's a big old' network you might call it DL (Deep Learning).

At this point in time, true general intelligence has not been achieved. It's unclear whether it ever will be. DL has proven to be exceptional at particular tasks though, for example it now consistently outperforms humans in image recognition, playing complex games, and can even solve INSANE physics problems with orders of magnitude less computation. You cannot deny that DL is incredibly impressive when applied appropriately.

I assume that's what you were getting at, but it's effectively a semantic argument and a mis-use of terminology. DLSS uses ML/DL, it is inherently different to conventional approaches. Also note DLSS uses a bunch of conventional programming and the ML/DL is a single stage in a multi-stage pipeline.

 

[oguzsoso]

I was just thinking. FSR scales a low res image up yeah, so lets say a game that required 3gig of vram say x4 foundations. And you cant play cos of say laptop or a old 2gb card was used say a 670 2gb version and if u tried to play ud get some weird artifacts due to out of vram if u played normally those games on them cards. Could fsr help those play those games cos fsr could reduce vram usage and the 2gb cards would be ok on the 3gb min required game. Plus say cos of nvidia 8gb cards and they wanted to play 4k and games might want 9gb could fsr help those too. Be interesting if fsr helped in those situations.

no

i had a r7 265

it RAN into vram problems even at 720p in ac origins with medium textures (which looked horrible and crap compared to high textures. by horrible, i mean really horrible. they literally looked like pre-ps3 games. i bet some ps2 games would rival ac origins/odyssey's medium textures. same for rdr 2. texture settings are SNAKE oil. you literally downgrade your textures to pre-xbox360 era and you only get a measly reduction of 100-300 mb in most of the cases
even going below 480p didn't help stutters related to vram

in the end, i had to pick lowest possible textures. even then, the vram usage was still maxed out at 2 gb and performance was still suffering. with lowest possible textures, game looked worse than asassin creed 1 in terms of texture quality around the city and pavements. i'm not even joking

 

[nvidiamd]

I was just thinking. FSR scales a low res image up yeah, so lets say a game that required 3gig of vram say x4 foundations. And you cant play cos of say laptop or a old 2gb card was used say a 670 2gb version and if u tried to play ud get some weird artifacts due to out of vram if u played normally those games on them cards. Could fsr help those play those games cos fsr could reduce vram usage and the 2gb cards would be ok on the 3gb min required game. Plus say cos of nvidia 8gb cards and they wanted to play 4k and games might want 9gb could fsr help those too. Be interesting if fsr helped in those situations.

Yes FSR ( and DLSS) will make your VRAM usage lower since they use a lower res input.

Any issues related to ray traced reflections will be due to temporal sampling which FSR currently doesn't do.

Yes that's why i said it will be much worse than DLSS.

 

[Rroff]

Yes that's why i said it will be much worse than DLSS.

It should be no different to the rest of the scene with FSR - any implementation where reflections have degraded quality will be due to lacking sufficient/good enough temporal data in an implementation which uses temporal methods for reconstruction.

 

[0h_no_not_again]

As long as it doesn't work on AMD's GPU's, Nvidia's own older GPU and Consoles, which FSR does, DLSS is doomed to fail.

Personally i don't care if its FSR or DLSS that wins this, for me its about usability, that the technology doesn't care what GPU you have, that: "it just works" and that's not what Nvidia are about, for them these technologies are about locking you in to their hardware and for that reason it will fail, on that basis it also deservers to.

It depends if FSR can truly compete with DLSS. If DLSS provides superior image quality for the same performance uplift, then it will survive.

My 2c is that which ever approach is made generic, i.e. no game integration required, will eventually win even if the quality isn't quite as good as the competition.

 

[Rroff]

Just because something is technically advanced, it doesn't mean it will be successful in the market. The fact that DLSS is limited to a very small subset of one vendor's high end cards pretty much ensures it will never become a dominant feature or the defacto standard. Nvidia keeps DLSS as a unique selling point to try to sell more of their own products, and that makes sure it can never be more than that as a presence in the market.

You should blame Nvidia for not releasing DLSS for the whole market, they are ensuring DLSS (and it's advanced tech) will lose out out in long run.

Like others you are focussing on the wrong part of my point. Though I agree that nVidia should be making more of an effort to make DLSS widely available (well sort of - at the same time I'm not really a fan of DLSS).

 

[LtMatt]

I could try and test FSR + RT reflections @nvidiamd and @Rroff Native vs Ultra Quality if you are interested in Godfall?

EDIT

Not sure if Godfall has RT reflections on second thought.

 

[Harlequin]

HUB have answered a question about FSR, quite interesting tbh

 

[oguzsoso]

I could try and test FSR + RT reflections @nvidiamd and @Rroff Native vs Ultra Quality if you are interested in Godfall?

EDIT

Not sure if Godfall has RT reflections on second thought.

it only has rt shadows

but you can maybe research about ue4 rt unlocker or something that is supposedly can unlock rt reflections on any ue4 games

 

[Rroff]

I could try and test FSR + RT reflections @nvidiamd and @Rroff Native vs Ultra Quality if you are interested in Godfall?

EDIT

Not sure if Godfall has RT reflections on second thought.

I might be wrong but AFAIK FSR will be taking the low resolution frame output which essentially already has the shading from ray tracing "baked" into the image so it shouldn't be handled any differently to any other part of the image the only exception being in a system that uses temporal methods for reconstruction where it might be lacking motion data relevant to reflection content.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Just because something is technically advanced, it doesn't mean it will be successful in the market. The fact that DLSS is limited to a very small subset of one vendor's high end cards pretty much ensures it will never become a dominant feature or the defacto standard. Nvidia keeps DLSS as a unique selling point to try to sell more of their own products, and that makes sure it can never be more than that as a presence in the market.

Its PhysX all over again, a headline grabbing loss leader designed to pull in the punters nothing more

It will win out because FSR doesn't keep you locked in to mid to high end GPU's only from one particular vendor.

As i said before, and as long as the technology is good the only thing i care about is the usability of it, the industry only cares about the same thing, if Nvidia had a different mindset their technology would actually win, but because their only interest is to use it to sell more GPU's at a higher price it will lose.

The tech may lose but as sales lately prove the company and shareholders wins which is really what its all about as far as Nvidia is concerned

 

[nvidiamd]

It should be no different to the rest of the scene with FSR - any implementation where reflections have degraded quality will be due to lacking sufficient/good enough temporal data in an implementation which uses temporal methods for reconstruction.

It is different for RT, even DLSS will struggle with it and FSR even more. For DLSS is like running DLSS on top of DLSS since denoising is also using temporal data. For FSR is half or quarter of samples denoised at a lower res that need to be upscaled and they already look bad.

 

[Hotwired]

Not really a trick question though it is difficult to precisely measure them side by side at the moment people seem to have lost focus of the performance side of it. When you have roughly comparable output from both DLSS is providing around 2 to 3 times the performance uplift that FSR does.

That is a tech focused angle since the average gaming card isn't getting DLSS support.

FSR benefits the vast majority of cards on the SHS and that looks enormously more attractive from the practical viewpoint of making the game as accessible as possible.

 

[nvidiamd]

I might be wrong but AFAIK FSR will be taking the low resolution frame output which essentially already has the shading from ray tracing "baked" into the image so it shouldn't be handled any differently to any other part of the image the only exception being in a system that uses temporal methods for reconstruction where it might be lacking motion data relevant to reflection content.

You can post some pictures from Quake II native vs TAAU with RT reflections and we will see how good they are upscaled.

 

[Hotwired]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/922620/announcements/detail/3006697839930461219

Bug Fixes

• Fixed: Depth of Field
  
• Fixed: Voicelines should now be more audible
  
• Adjustment to Flame- and Icetower collision so it is easier to navigate and combat around them

Kingshunt fixing the bug already

 

[Godhand007]

Quake II (RTX) is a first-person shooter video game first released in December 1997.