Poll: Fight: steven seagal v JCVD - Who do you think would win?

Who would win?

  • Steven Seagal

    Votes: 196 44.5%

  • JCVD

    Votes: 244 55.5%
  • Total voters
    440
hurfdurf said:
Why are these Aikido fighters not mopping up and earning millions in MMA?
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The philosophy is one of defence not offence. The same with Tai Chi and Kung Fu.

MMA/UFC use styles of fighting that are predominantly designed for competition.

Technically they use mixed fighting styles taken from Martial Arts and not the Martial Art itself.

It doesn't mean that Tai Chi/Kung Fu/Aikido are ineffective, it simply means it is not MMA.
 
hurfdurf said:
The only problem with that is Aikido only works when your opponent lets you throw them around or in spergy nerds fantasy's where you don't have to be genuinely tough to be able to fight with any kind of reasonable chance of winning.
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Indeed unless you get lucky and dissuade them within the first few moments they will wise up, approach with more caution and change tactics i.e. resort to flinging dirt in your eyes to blind you... etc. etc. Aikido on its own in a real fight will only get you into trouble.
 
hurfdurf said:
The only problem with that is Aikido only works when your opponent lets you throw them around or in spergy nerds fantasy's where you don't have to be genuinely tough to be able to fight with any kind of reasonable chance of winning.
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That is a bit of a daft statement really.

It doesn't matter what style of fighting you prefer, if you are not genuinely tough then you are seriously disadvantaged.
 
hurfdurf said:
The only problem with that is Aikido only works when your opponent lets you throw them around or in spergy nerds fantasy's where you don't have to be genuinely tough to be able to fight with any kind of reasonable chance of winning.
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Ah! At last, you're more coherent than dowie.

Yes I see what you mean now. "Aikido only works when your opponent lets you throw them around". It's down to your interpretation of what you see.

Take this clip for instance (please ignore the 'attack'!)


The "Aikido" is not necessarily causing the attacker (uke) to flip, he is doing it to (1) avoid pain/damage to his wrist (2) potentially allow for openings for a counter attack.

Most people doubt aikido as they see flips and rolls and 'see' the guy going with it. Of course he is. There are, however, times when you are forced across a matt at a zillion mph.
 
Can't believe I'm spending time replying to this thread still...

meghatronic said:
Well, ultimately it's your loss. Being narrow-minded and being unable to expand on your grievances doesn't exactly bode well for discussion. You have also hesitated discussing your martial art experience, if any. So we have to assume you're an armchair samurai.
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You can assume what you like I don't personally feel like I've lost anything nor would I consider myself narrow minded for requiring evidence of a martial art's effectiveness. I'm fairly open minded but with a filter for BS.

Interestingly its other areas filled with pseudo science like alternative medicine etc.. where people will be evasive accusing proponents of evidence based medicine of being narrow minded. Some proponents of homeopathy dismiss criticism of its effectiveness by claiming that clinical trials are ineffective because it doesn't work that way, they taylor the cure to the individual... Similarly we'll get evasive arguments as to why Aikido isn't particularly prevalent within MMA if its supposedly so effective.

I find it very odd you single out Aikido as lacking 'aliveness' when, if a good school, it is one of the most 'alive'.
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It really isn't....
 
meghatronic said:
From the top instructors I've met, they would certainly not want to be "A list celebrity's and earning millions". In fact, I've yet to meet an instructor that makes a profit from aikido teaching. My last club had 6 figures in the bank and the instructor doesn't even claim expenses.

The wristlocks don't work in a genuine combat situation? Oh noes! Better call the police to restructure their control and restraint courses. I don't just mean the UK Police, I meant pretty much every law enforcement agency in the world that uses exactly the same locks.

Also, your 1/10th pace is fallacious. ALL martial arts and sports train at incremental speeds, building up. Cf. the Mustard video previously.
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LOL if you think the police use Aikido techniques. You have falled hook line and sinker for a fantasy much like people fall for religion, homeopathic medicine and Psychic hot lines.
 
Its not ineffective at what it does, but its ineffective in a wider sense - its a useful tool to have in your arsenal but its ineffective as your sole tool.
 
hurfdurf said:
LOL if you think the police use Aikido techniques. You have falled hook line and sinker for a fantasy much like people fall for religion, homeopathic medicine and Psychic hot lines.
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Hands up who has assisted on police and prison service control and restraint courses?

Oh...? Me. I see.

hurfdurf said:
Indeed.

How many times have you been knocked out at Aikido? I have been to three different schools and not seen anything that even comes close to genuine training.
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Personally? Quite a few times, only once for >5 seconds though. I've also had bones broken (every toe, cracked ribs, dislocated shoulders and thumbs) and broken bones. I've also had a few black eyes and bloody noses. But I have trained in Japan and South Korea where they seem to be... more hardcore.

Name and shame the schools! I may have been there, or know of them.

I'm not trying to say all Aikido (or clubs) is (are) good - that's impossible a statement. What I am trying to say is not all Aikido (clubs) is (are) bad :).
 
hurfdurf said:
He isn't, its an epic troll.
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Really, Why would Silva lie?


And Rik Ellis?


On the subject of Seagal, people do realise that he has Black-belts in ****o-ryu karate (1st Dan), Kendo and Judo.....

JCVD has one in Karate, some kickboxing, some experience (no qualification) in Muay Tai and 5 years Ballet training!

Personally, both in their prime JCVD to coin a phrase......"is a dead man walking"
 
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Castiel said:
That is true of ALL martial arts or any fighting style.
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To a degree yes but far more than most disciplines it depends on letting the opponent come to you, in a real fight you want to be calling the shots - which is why krav maga is so effective because it mixes in both aspects.
 
And yet it still isn't particularly prevalent within MMA and everyone seems to be using martial arts incorporating more 'aliveness' - BJJ, judo, wrestling... strange that Aikido doesn't have the popularity of Brazilian jui jitsu if its so effective....
 
dowie said:
And yet it still isn't particularly prevalent within MMA and everyone seems to be using martial arts incorporating more 'aliveness' - BJJ, judo, wrestling... strange that Aikido doesn't have the popularity of Brazilian jui jitsu if its so effective....
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Or it could have something to do with the rules ;)

Rroff said:
To a degree yes but far more than most disciplines it depends on letting the opponent come to you, in a real fight you want to be calling the shots - which is why krav maga is so effective because it mixes in both aspects.
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Krav Maga is about the worse thing to use for self 'defence' in a real fight though (legally) :D
 
On the other hand Judo is pretty awesome for self defence - punching/kicking the *** out of someone might upset a jury - throwing them onto their head is ironically less likely to - despite the reality that hitting someone with your fists will hurt them a lot less than hitting someone with a planet.
 
dowie said:
On the other hand Judo is pretty awesome for self defence - punching/kicking the *** out of someone might upset a jury - throwing them onto their head is ironically less likely to - despite the reality that hitting someone with your fists will hurt them a lot less than hitting someone with a planet.
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Quite. There is a quote in a book that says if you're in a fight, you want a judoka by your side. Especially if we're talking scraps rather than a proper street fight.
 
Rroff said:
To a degree yes but far more than most disciplines it depends on letting the opponent come to you, in a real fight you want to be calling the shots - which is why krav maga is so effective because it mixes in both aspects.
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In a real fight, the ability to put your opponent down permanently in the shortest period of time is the most effective. How you do that is irrelevant.

Anticipation of intent is your best weapon. Have been taught Krav Maga it is primarily defensive street fighting designed to counter attack.
 
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