For the gym rats

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Ultra_Extreme said:
Holy hell just did my first proper leg day since going un-natural........Holy hell. Let me put it this way (PB natty ~1 month back) 120k for 1.5 reps (proper a2g) this sesh 150 x 5.....

Theres actually a lot to tell on this front but i dont want to step out of line on the forums, Freefaller whats your take on me rattling off a log for the interest of the more hardcore trainees? No specifics and of course no source info etc? Or could i linky a log on MT or somewhere?
Click to expand...

I'll double check mate :)
 
Monday:

Flat BB Bench:

12x60kg
10x80kg
8x90kg
8x100kg
6x110kg
4x120kg
1x130kg
1x130kg

Decline BB Bench:

10x80kg
8x90kg
7x100kg
5x110kg
DS: 8x80kg

Incline DB Bench:

8x22.5kg
8x25kg
8x30kg
8x32.5
8x35kg
6x35kg

Hammer curls:

12x15kg
12x17.5kg
10x19kg
8x21kg
8x15kg

Cable curls:

10x60
10x70
8x80
8x90
8x100
8x60

Supersetted with EZ Bar preacher curls:

10x32.5kg
10x40kg
5x45kg
4x50kg
8x32.5kg

That's it! Happy with bench today, wish I could have repped the 130, but at least I got 2 clean lifts out of it and the rest of my bench was strong as were my DBs could have done 40kg db incline, but just didn't for some reason. :confused:

Arms were a bit meh today, didn't really push 'em hard, but at least I got a good pump. Wrist is a bit sore so took it easy today, all in all an ok session. :)
 
aftershxck said:
Tank that's a huge amount of time on the cross trainer - what do you do it for exactly (not questioning in *that* way, just curious whether I should incorporate it since it seems a bit easier than riding a boring bicycle :p)
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I dont have a strict diet so an hour on the cross trainer after every workout helps.
 
ethos said:
Diet is pretty poor ^Tank^... would be a lot better if you could up that to 6-7 meals a day and spread the calories out some.

a lot of carbs as well and I see no healthy fats :)
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Its not that bad and **** that 6-7 meals a day:o.

ethos said:
I'd split up weights + cardio personally. If it "has" to be done after training i'd down a protein shake with carbs before getting on the cross trainer. Or at least take some bcaas.
Click to expand...

Monday, Wednesday,Friday I train hard so Tuesdays Thursdays and weekends are for recovery and boy do I need it.
 
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I have never understood that, Many years ago when I got into to weight lifting/body building the guys that I tagged along with would eat 6-7 times a day never understood why they would have to eat like that.:confused:
 
^TANK^ said:
I have never understood that, Many years ago when I got into to weight lifting/body building the guys that I tagged along with would eat 6-7 times a day never understood why they would have to eat like that.:confused:
Click to expand...
Your body wont process the nutrients properly. Even though you might 'need' all the calories you consume in a 24 hour period, during the 2 hours of post ingestive digestion your body will not be able to use the calories. Once it has reached level X of absorption (level X being your maximum capacity for nutrient usage in a given time) the rest will be stored as fats or excreted as waste.

Thus though you might consume a meal containing 1200 calories and 120g protein (a projection of 1/3 what i assume a guy your size might need) you might only use half that and store a quarter as fat, wasting a quarter in poop.

If you had that meal spread over 2 servings 2 hours apart, it is wholly possible that you would be able to absorb nearly all the nutrients and store almost none as fat due to your level X being higher than your intake.

Not to mention the benefits of a nutrient rich environment over a course of 4 hours instead of 2 and the effect of this on anabolism, IGF-1 and testosterone levels plus the lack of cortisol......

Fact is if you were a 'perfect' bodybuilder then you would want to be hooked to a drip that fed EXACTLY your requirments (lets say, arbitrarily, 3000kCal 20/30/50 fat/carb/protein) over a 24 hour period on a per second basis so that at each point during the day there were exactly the right amount of nutrients to perpetuate anabolism perfectly. Whilst i would like to live in that world, i'm the exception, and my drip itches (jk). So you need to get as close to that model as possible if you take this stuff seriously. With your basic diet plan you would shed pounds just by adjusting meal frequency.
 
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Ultra_Extreme said:
Your body wont process the nutrients properly. Even though you might 'need' all the calories you consume in a 24 hour period, during the 2 hours of post ingestive digestion your body will not be able to use the calories. Once it has reached level X of absorption (level X being your maximum capacity for nutrient usage in a given time) the rest will be stored as fats or excreted as waste.

Thus though you might consume a meal containing 1200 calories and 120g protein (a projection of 1/3 what i assume a guy your size might need) you might only use half that and store a quarter as fat, wasting a quarter in poop.

If you had that meal spread over 2 servings 2 hours apart, it is wholly possible that you would be able to absorb nearly all the nutrients and store almost none as fat due to your level X being higher than your intake.

Not to mention the benefits of a nutrient rich environment over a course of 4 hours instead of 2 and the effect of this on anabolism, IGF-1 and testosterone levels plus the lack of cortisol......

Fact is if you were a 'perfect' bodybuilder then you would want to be hooked to a drip that fed EXACTLY your requirments (lets say, arbitrarily, 3000kCal 20/30/50 fat/carb/protein) over a 24 hour period on a per second basis so that at each point during the day there were exactly the right amount of nutrients to perpetuate anabolism perfectly. Whilst i would like to live in that world, i'm the exception, and my drip itches (jk). So you need to get as close to that model as possible if you take this stuff seriously. With your basic diet plan you would shed pounds just by adjusting meal frequency.
Click to expand...

Dear god man you know your stuff that sounds very complicated I wouldn't know where to begin diet wise I was kind of hoping one of the more experience guys like yourself or Clipsey for example would write me out a simple cutting diet plan if that makes sense:confused:.
 
^TANK^ said:
Dear god man you know your stuff that sounds very complicated I wouldn't know where to begin diet wise I was kind of hoping one of the more experience guys like yourself or Clipsey for example would write me out a simple cutting diet plan if that makes sense:confused:.
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Im not good with diet plans m8 as im one of those "use shakes to avoid being inventive" but i think clipsey will come along with something soon.

My basic stab at a plan would be

First thing (after waking) Shake w/oats
brekkie 5 eggs scrambled on wholemeal
mid morning can tuna or shake
lunch chicken breast veg and pots or wholemeal bread
mid afternoon turkey roll/baguette
Early eve shake
Dinner steak and veg/fish and veg/chicken and veg
later evening can tuna or some sliced turkey may be w/small salad
before bed Shake

supps wise

AM good multi vit 20 caps omega 3 oil (for you) coupla rhodiola rosea and maybe some CLA or ALA
Mid morning another 10 fish oil
PM 10 more fish oil/ omega 3, 3 ZMA another multi vit maybe an isotonic powder and something like CLA or ALA to help antioxidise.

I follow something like that day to day, dont go mad on calories because your a big lad. The difference between a beginner at 160lbs and a monster at 250lbs is really only abou 1000kcal when it comes to maintaining. To lose weight i cut my cals down as low as 1000kcal which at 230 odd lbs (at heaviest) is super low. Im now a fairly lean 195 and gain on as little as 2200 a day, you need to find your tolerances and if i was to geuss id say you could cut cals a helluva lot. Be prepared for strength losses though im afraid
 
Tank in answer to your injection comment in the other thread....

Oral pharmaceutical drugs, whether it be paracetamol or dianabol (a steroid) work by being designed in such a way that the stomach acids and other processes involved in metabolism do not break down the active ingredient. This is done by 'attaching' other molecules to the drug. In paracetamol these 'additions' also have the lovely effect of causing your stomach wall to bleed...

Next is the hepatic system, the liver is a regenerative organ in the body that cleans your blood, like an oil filter in a car. Toxins are removed and processed by the liver, the liver is damaged in this process and some of it dies, however as one of the only mammalian organs that can regenerate itself this is not a problem. However for proper functioning of the body the liver must be around 80% functional. Beyond this you will feel unwell and tired, as low as 50% functionality you will get a mild case of "looking yellow" or 'jaundice' as a result of iron imbalances. Lower than 30% you are at risk of liver failure and should be hospitalised.

A cocktail of 4 paracetamol (1500-2000mg) and couple pints of lager could reduce liver functionality below 50% and with the added intestinal bleeding could leave you vey ill indeed. Most of that damage is from the painkillers not the beers.

So why bring this up? Because once oral drugs have survived the stomach acids and other metabolic processes of digestion they then have to make it through what is called the "first hepatic pass" essentially, due to the usual good engineering we are blessed with, the body sends blood from the stomach and intestines through the liver first. This helps reduce the negative effects of any toxins ingested on the rest of the body. However this has the unwanted side effect of breaking down any useful drugs that have made it this far. So again science has created defence mechanisms, the drugs shed a sacrificial molecule in the liver allowing it to pass through unprocessed. However this molecule is poisonous to the liver (it has to be to do what it does) and thus damage is caused. The drug can then enter the blood stream fully and pass around the body doing its job before getting destroyed completely in the second hepatic pass later on.

Injections bypass all of the stomach acid issues and also the first hepatic pass of the liver, so by putting a chemical like testosterone into your muscle you can supply it direct to the bloodstream (the muscle percolates (drip feeds) it into the blood allowing a steady supply. To take enough oral steroid to achieve significant hormone levels would probably kill you.

The sum total of what im saying is that, yes, injecting yourself can be horribly dangerous, but so can sky diving, car rallying and crossing the road. You must rely on yourself and your bank of knowledge and experience to keep you safe. Do it right and its painless and productive. Certainly safer and better for you than taking any oral!

Also a few things to dispel that i wouldnt have known years ago if i was reading this...

Steroids are intra muscular injections (in the muscle) NOT intravenous (into the blood like heroin etc) thus the worst outcome might be an infection or a lost needle, both could require a trip to A&E neither will kill you.

Steroids are the 186th most common hospital admission in the developed world right behind fingers getting stuck in ten pin bowling balls...100 places below "multi vitamin overdose"

More people die each year in hot air balloon accidents yet only 1% of the developed world has ever been in a hot air balloon 8% are involved in some degree of steroid use 4% inject (although as we've discussed, that is safer)

Steroids are not illegal in the UK nor do you need a prescription to carry/use or import them, it IS illegal to supply them (in the USA it is illegal to carry them without prescription)

Your penis DOES NOT shrink

Your balls DO SHRINK (but come back its called glandular atrophy)



Im not here to say one way or the other about steroids, i see them as a tool, much like protein, the dangers are overstated and the effects are exagerated. But if you take this game seriously its hard to avoid asking yourself "would i?" its a question only you can answer and only you should answer, its about taking responsibility for your actions and the consequences. The results can be spectacular (for reference just look at any male physique you aspire to, its 90% likely its substance enhanced) but the side effects can be damaging (man boobs, acne, infertility etc). Thats about all ive got to sy for tonight.
 
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I could write down a full diet plan for you Tank but to be honest I don't know what you like to eat and what kind of schedule you're on. As UE has stated it's more about splitting up your current in-take over a period of time rather than having 3 huge meals.
Try and stick to 1-shake per day if possible and take that straight after your weights routine (preferably a recovery shake with a good protein/carbs ratio).
Also it would be better to know your goals - shed a few pounds / get ripped / get bigger etc ?
I have an incline you are like my old gym partner - you want to be in Flex magazine where I want to be in Muscle Fitness magazine :p
 
RE: Steroid discussion

Guys, whilst they may not be illegal in the UK, the moderating team are a little nervous about having too much of an open discussion about steroids on this forum. For fear that easily influenced people will not make an informed decision, incorrect information is passed on (not saying that UE doesn't know his stuff) and that as a result of this information some issues may arise. Afterall it could be bordering on medical advice. I would have been interested, but as my responsibility to moderating this forum and the people that read it I must ask that we don't go into the intricate details of seteroid use here please.
 
^TANK^ said:
Its not that bad and **** that 6-7 meals a day:o
Click to expand...

It's not that great either, honestly 6-7 meals isn't as much of a pain as it seems. Just thinking about spreading the calories out more through the day. No point me going into the reason why the chaps above have done a good job of that.

^TANK^ said:
Monday, Wednesday,Friday I train hard so Tuesdays Thursdays and weekends are for recovery and boy do I need it.
Click to expand...

You need the rest because you're doing heavy weights then an hours cardio session ;)

To give you a rough example of my diet when cutting:

Meal 1 (8.00am); 2 scoops of whey, 2 scoops of ground oats
Meal 2 (10.30am); 1 large Chicken breast, assorted veg (tomatoes, green beans and peppers) + 2tbsp Olive oil
Meal 3 (1pm); 2 scoops of whey with 5 fish oil caps
Meal 4 (3.30pm); Same as meal 2
PRE Workout Coffee
TRAIN (15g of bcaa in water)
POST Workout, 1 scoops of waxy maize, 20 minutes later 2 scoops of protein
Meal 5 (7.30ishpm); differs
Meal 6 (10.30-11pm); 200g quark or 2 scoops of whey, 5 almonds and 5 fish oil caps

Hope this gives you an idea. Weighed myself and modified every 2 weeks normally. Last 4 weeks I carb cycling (again very easy). Can add some carbs in meal 2-4 if needed although my energy was fine due to the fats I was taking in.

Weeks 1-4 Full body, HITT cardio 2x a week
Weeks 4-8 Fully body, low intensity 3x a week

Lost 26lbs in 8 weeks, no size off my chest/arms but 4-5 inches off my waist.

Losing weight is easy if you have the right tools in the toolbox :)
 
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Clipsey said:
I could write down a full diet plan for you Tank but to be honest I don't know what you like to eat and what kind of schedule you're on. As UE has stated it's more about splitting up your current in-take over a period of time rather than having 3 huge meals.
Try and stick to 1-shake per day if possible and take that straight after your weights routine (preferably a recovery shake with a good protein/carbs ratio).
Also it would be better to know your goals - shed a few pounds / get ripped / get bigger etc ?
I have an incline you are like my old gym partner - you want to be in Flex magazine where I want to be in Muscle Fitness magazine :p
Click to expand...

Ok I'll split what I posted into six meals and goals wise just to shed a few pounds, more definition nothing extreme like being ripped to the ****;) Also I will eat almost anything but protein shakes make me wretch sadly, my friend does all the supplement stuff and I have always had a little taste in one word rough!:p



Ultra_Extreme said:
Tank in answer to your injection comment in the other thread....

Oral pharmaceutical drugs, whether it be paracetamol or dianabol (a steroid) work by being designed in such a way that the stomach acids and other processes involved in metabolism do not break down the active ingredient. This is done by 'attaching' other molecules to the drug. In paracetamol these 'additions' also have the lovely effect of causing your stomach wall to bleed...

Next is the hepatic system, the liver is a regenerative organ in the body that cleans your blood, like an oil filter in a car. Toxins are removed and processed by the liver, the liver is damaged in this process and some of it dies, however as one of the only mammalian organs that can regenerate itself this is not a problem. However for proper functioning of the body the liver must be around 80% functional. Beyond this you will feel unwell and tired, as low as 50% functionality you will get a mild case of "looking yellow" or 'jaundice' as a result of iron imbalances. Lower than 30% you are at risk of liver failure and should be hospitalised.

A cocktail of 4 paracetamol (1500-2000mg) and couple pints of lager could reduce liver functionality below 50% and with the added intestinal bleeding could leave you vey ill indeed. Most of that damage is from the painkillers not the beers.

So why bring this up? Because once oral drugs have survived the stomach acids and other metabolic processes of digestion they then have to make it through what is called the "first hepatic pass" essentially, due to the usual good engineering we are blessed with, the body sends blood from the stomach and intestines through the liver first. This helps reduce the negative effects of any toxins ingested on the rest of the body. However this has the unwanted side effect of breaking down any useful drugs that have made it this far. So again science has created defence mechanisms, the drugs shed a sacrificial molecule in the liver allowing it to pass through unprocessed. However this molecule is poisonous to the liver (it has to be to do what it does) and thus damage is caused. The drug can then enter the blood stream fully and pass around the body doing its job before getting destroyed completely in the second hepatic pass later on.

Injections bypass all of the stomach acid issues and also the first hepatic pass of the liver, so by putting a chemical like testosterone into your muscle you can supply it direct to the bloodstream (the muscle percolates (drip feeds) it into the blood allowing a steady supply. To take enough oral steroid to achieve significant hormone levels would probably kill you.

The sum total of what im saying is that, yes, injecting yourself can be horribly dangerous, but so can sky diving, car rallying and crossing the road. You must rely on yourself and your bank of knowledge and experience to keep you safe. Do it right and its painless and productive. Certainly safer and better for you than taking any oral!

Also a few things to dispel that i wouldnt have known years ago if i was reading this...

Steroids are intra muscular injections (in the muscle) NOT intravenous (into the blood like heroin etc) thus the worst outcome might be an infection or a lost needle, both could require a trip to A&E neither will kill you.

Steroids are the 186th most common hospital admission in the developed world right behind fingers getting stuck in ten pin bowling balls...100 places below "multi vitamin overdose"

More people die each year in hot air balloon accidents yet only 1% of the developed world has ever been in a hot air balloon 8% are involved in some degree of steroid use 4% inject (although as we've discussed, that is safer)

Steroids are not illegal in the UK nor do you need a prescription to carry/use or import them, it IS illegal to supply them (in the USA it is illegal to carry them without prescription)

Your penis DOES NOT shrink

Your balls DO SHRINK (but come back its called glandular atrophy)



Im not here to say one way or the other about steroids, i see them as a tool, much like protein, the dangers are overstated and the effects are exagerated. But if you take this game seriously its hard to avoid asking yourself "would i?" its a question only you can answer and only you should answer, its about taking responsibility for your actions and the consequences. The results can be spectacular (for reference just look at any male physique you aspire to, its 90% likely its substance enhanced) but the side effects can be damaging (man boobs, acne, infertility etc). Thats about all ive got to sy for tonight.
Click to expand...

Very informative Ultra_Extreme thank you for taking the time to write and explain a few things to me.:cool:
 
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