Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

Because they look pretty much the same bar a change of facial hair here or there.

What is their excuse regarding the perfume? Can't find anything conclusive.
Well it will be hard to prove it was theirs.

What the UK government needs is an image of their Xrayed luggage but for whatever reason I don't think they are kept or if they are they aren't mapped to individuals

Actually, Just had a thought, probably more likely it was delivered to them in London.

Hence traces in room
 
I think this whole tourist narrative has been a massive own goal for Russia, even I don't believe it.

It's funny though that every time there is some pressure on May over Brexit the Salisbury thing blows up in the media due to some new information, someone is playing the media like a fiddle.

If you are insinuating it’s a cover to stop us talking about what a mess May is making of Brexit it would Mean May is behind it all, Asked Putin to set up attack allowing for “blow ups” in the news to distract us.

That would be as farfetched as these guys “tourist” story!
 
I think this whole tourist narrative has been a massive own goal for Russia, even I don't believe it.

I think they are hiding something too. And then there's the official narrative which is so dodgy.

Brief recap:

1. Russia accused one week after incident but alleged traces of nerve agent in hotel only discovered on May 4th, two months later. Hotel isn't sealed off, investigators in hazmat suits aren't called in. Hotel manager isn't informed why his premises are being visited by police. Nobody who stayed at the hotel, and particularly in the same hotel room, is contacted as a precaution*. Instead, some more swabs are taken, all show up negative and the conclusion becomes that all of the nerve agent was removed by the first swabs instead of false identification or inconclusive. OPCW is not called to confirm the findings.

* Important - neither for precaution NOR to try and find additional traces of nerve agent on their suitcases etc, to serve as additional evidence for their case.

2. "Track record" and "motive" wheeled out immediately. Six months later, May is asked what the motive was. She waffles a bit, then says it's up to Russia to say. Well excuse me, but you accused them of motive six months ago, so it's also up to you. If track record and motive are suddenly so obvious, how was it not so obvious all along? How can it be argued that the risk to Skripal was determined to be so low that CCTVs were not installed in his street (I do not believe this) and then do a 360 and claim track record and motive are obvious?

3. Russia is the only one with this stuff/the actual stuff came from Russia. Turned out to be rubbish. USA, UK, Czech Republic, Iran, Germany all now known to research Novichok-type nerve agents. Porton Down contradicted Boris Johnson and said they cannot tell that this was Russian-made. Foreign Office tweets deleted.

4. Here come some crazy coincidences: Big month-long chemical weapons exercise in Salisbury due to end 6th March. 4th March there's actually a chemical attack. In Salisbury. First person to attend the Skripals on the bench was a military nurse and not just any army nurse but one with experience of treating Ebola in Sierra Leone. Skripals taken to Salisbury District Hospital. Two doctors in Salisbury District Hospital, on duty at that time, are freshly returned from a two-week course on chemical weapons and their effects, and are able to diagnose possible nerve agent symptoms. The preparation for what would happen is so excellent and in stark contrast to the woeful level (alleged) of surveillance and security for the Skripals.

5. Rain washed off most of the nerve agent on the handle overnight. Story changed to: nerve agent applied in broad daylight around noon 4th March.

6. After three to four hours, Yulia and Sergei both collapse at the exact same time with neither able to call for help. But Dawn Sturgess collapses minutes later. And Charlie Rowley succumbs more than eight hours later. The details do not help explain the synchronicity of the Skripal's symptoms nor the disparity in the onset of symptoms for Dawn and Charlie. If the nerve agent actually is intentionally slow acting, then Dawn would have collapsed hours not minutes later. And if some penetrated Charlie's nervous system even after washing his hands, then the symptoms should have taken less time (around three to four hours) to begin.

6. Six months on, and still no statement from Sergei Skripal himself.


Even when it is proven beyond all reasonable doubt, the shills will just peddle the line "it's deflection tactics to distract the sheeple from the fact our government is invading Iran/raising bedroom tax/pillaging poor people/*insert any other preposterous allegation here*".

Case in point, see Corbyn and antisemitism headlines.



@Danny75 for example.

The truth is rather that some people are able to not ignore dodginess from either side, but some are incapable of admitting dodginess from one side. The latter similar to the effect whereby political affiliations blind people to their own party's sins and are only able to see the other party's sins. @RoboCod for example.
 
I think they are hiding something too. And then there's the official narrative which is so dodgy.

Brief recap:

hilarious, you think they're hiding something... is it not rather obvious what they're hiding... that they were there to carry out an assassination - yet you still can't admit it and instead have posted another wall of text full of rather misplaced skepticism and dubious assertions that have already been debunked for example re: Novichok etc.. (conflating the idea that Iran or other countries tried to make some to rubbish the claim that this specific nerve agent came from Russia).

You've also made a big deal out of stuff that isn't particular coincidental - for example a medical professional being nearby when someone clearly needs first aid in public, that's quite common. I'm not sure what relevance her having experience with ebola has here either, but you've thrown that in for whatever reason.

This is just reverting to the usual conspiracy theory nonsense.
 
Danny75 is omitting the the swiss lab testing the samples was targeted by russian hackers.

If you think its a cover-up by our own government (which you where basically trying to say in point 4) of a chemical test (this is news to me so ill like some more information) just come out and say it.

I would have given the doubt to that being a possibility of it being a coverup but with the Russian "tourist" story is so shoddy it makes it almost ridiculous it could come from anyone bar them.
 
I think they are hiding something too. And then there's the official narrative which is so dodgy.

Brief recap:

1. Russia accused one week after incident but alleged traces of nerve agent in hotel only discovered on May 4th, two months later. Hotel isn't sealed off, investigators in hazmat suits aren't called in. Hotel manager isn't informed why his premises are being visited by police. Nobody who stayed at the hotel, and particularly in the same hotel room, is contacted as a precaution*. Instead, some more swabs are taken, all show up negative and the conclusion becomes that all of the nerve agent was removed by the first swabs instead of false identification or inconclusive. OPCW is not called to confirm the findings.

* Important - neither for precaution NOR to try and find additional traces of nerve agent on their suitcases etc, to serve as additional evidence for their case.

2. "Track record" and "motive" wheeled out immediately. Six months later, May is asked what the motive was. She waffles a bit, then says it's up to Russia to say. Well excuse me, but you accused them of motive six months ago, so it's also up to you. If track record and motive are suddenly so obvious, how was it not so obvious all along? How can it be argued that the risk to Skripal was determined to be so low that CCTVs were not installed in his street (I do not believe this) and then do a 360 and claim track record and motive are obvious?

3. Russia is the only one with this stuff/the actual stuff came from Russia. Turned out to be rubbish. USA, UK, Czech Republic, Iran, Germany all now known to research Novichok-type nerve agents. Porton Down contradicted Boris Johnson and said they cannot tell that this was Russian-made. Foreign Office tweets deleted.

4. Here come some crazy coincidences: Big month-long chemical weapons exercise in Salisbury due to end 6th March. 4th March there's actually a chemical attack. In Salisbury. First person to attend the Skripals on the bench was a military nurse and not just any army nurse but one with experience of treating Ebola in Sierra Leone. Skripals taken to Salisbury District Hospital. Two doctors in Salisbury District Hospital, on duty at that time, are freshly returned from a two-week course on chemical weapons and their effects, and are able to diagnose possible nerve agent symptoms. The preparation for what would happen is so excellent and in stark contrast to the woeful level (alleged) of surveillance and security for the Skripals.

5. Rain washed off most of the nerve agent on the handle overnight. Story changed to: nerve agent applied in broad daylight around noon 4th March.

6. After three to four hours, Yulia and Sergei both collapse at the exact same time with neither able to call for help. But Dawn Sturgess collapses minutes later. And Charlie Rowley succumbs more than eight hours later. The details do not help explain the synchronicity of the Skripal's symptoms nor the disparity in the onset of symptoms for Dawn and Charlie. If the nerve agent actually is intentionally slow acting, then Dawn would have collapsed hours not minutes later. And if some penetrated Charlie's nervous system even after washing his hands, then the symptoms should have taken less time (around three to four hours) to begin.

6. Six months on, and still no statement from Sergei Skripal himself.




The truth is rather that some people are able to not ignore dodginess from either side, but some are incapable of admitting dodginess from one side. The latter similar to the effect whereby political affiliations blind people to their own party's sins and are only able to see the other party's sins. @RoboCod for example.
If you believe what you are actually typing, you need to go sit down for an hour away from a PC, have a coffee, then return to re-read what you typed with a critical view and tell me there's no bias or omission of sources and ignoring facts in that wall of text you typed.

If you don't believe in what you are typing, then you are a good troll, but one with too much time on their hands
 
hilarious, you think they're hiding something... is it not rather obvious what they're hiding... that they were there to carry out an assassination - yet you still can't admit it and instead have posted another wall of text full of rather misplaced skepticism and dubious assertions that have already been debunked for example re: Novichok etc.. (conflating the idea that Iran or other countries tried to make some to rubbish the claim that this specific nerve agent came from Russia).

One has to believe it before admitting it, or be a liar. And there are plenty of good reasons to keep an open mind, and facts, which no doubt you will continue to attempt to dismiss as "CT nonsense".

You claim that the assertions re: novichok OR closely related agent and who has successfully made them are "dubious" and have been "debunked". This flies in the face of admissions from the OPCW itself concerning Iran's successful creation of a novichok-type agent, Czech Republic's admission that they also made a type, etc. Have to wonder what sort of magical debunking you're referring to. But go on and try me.

The more one is familiar with the nuances of this case, the more possible explanations there are for those two Russians' presence in Salisbury other than the two simplistic "Tourists OR Assassins, nothing in between". If you have swallowed the official narrative hook, line and sinker, already, then the only explanation can be that they were there to assassinate Skripal. I understand that. It's been set-up nicely for that with the little the authorities have shown us (and what has been withheld), even though the "blanks" need to be filled with imagining key details such as Boshirov and Petrov actually walking up to Skripal's front door and imagining that the Skripals returned home after leaving that morning. If you do not discount the possibility that Russia was intentionally set up, and take into account track record of some members of British intelligence lying to politicians and the public about "Yellowcake" and "45 minutes" and dragging the country into wars, which is what I'm personally doing, then there are other explanations and the need to question before gulping down everything we are told, exists.

At this very moment, people are travelling all over the world, and not everyone's intentions are what they would say they are, for many reasons (affairs, drug couriers, surveillance, off-the-record meetings, etc etc). Not everyone in this segment of travellers will be assassins. It is plausible these two have something else to hide. The Russians would be interested in Exercise Toxic Dagger for example, would they not? And that's just one of the possible reasons. Other reasons could have to do with Skripal himself, including but not limited to, assassinating him.


You've also made a big deal out of stuff that isn't particular coincidental - for example a medical professional being nearby when someone clearly needs first aid in public, that's quite common. I'm not sure what relevance her having experience with ebola has here either, but you've thrown that in for whatever reason.

Plenty of newspapers mentioned that detail. Glad you're not saying the claim is "dubious" or "debunked", in any case. You say it isn't particularly coincidental, as you would naturally say. And you try to paint it as a medical professional being nearby. But they didn't "take over" from someone else or something. They were literally the first on-hand to help the Skripals, and obviously had experience in dealing with very dangerous stuff, not to mention gave them mouth-to-mouth without being affected. Medical professionals vary in quality and in experience. This one seemed to be pretty special. So a coincidence.

I bolded one sentence in my previous post, hoping someone would address it: Why were the occupants who stayed in the same room as Boshirov and Petrov not contacted in order to examine their suitcases and other belongings for additional evidence of nerve agent? Oops?


Danny75 is omitting the the swiss lab testing the samples was targeted by russian hackers.

Omitting? But what's your point? It wouldn't surprise me if it was Russia. They were not invited to be part of the OPCW investigation into this so they would want to find out as much as possible. I note it is reported no actual charges yet.


If you think its a cover-up by our own government (which you where basically trying to say in point 4) of a chemical test (this is news to me so ill like some more information) just come out and say it.

Not sure if serious - all along I've been arguing to keep an open mind for the possibility that it wasn't Russia, and that it was a set up by someone else, suspects would include factions within UK, USA and Ukraine intelligence circles. If you'd like to know more, I'd search for info on Exercise Toxic Dagger. As far as an established link between war games/exercises and the real thing coincidentally happening during the exercise, I strongly recommend James Corbett's new video "911 War Games" (it's not just about 911 - for the younger members of this forum, who may have never witnessed Peter Power's appearance on TV the day of the London 7th July 2005 bombings, it should blow their minds).

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-a...-for-royal-marines-in-major-chemical-exercise



I would have given the doubt to that being a possibility of it being a coverup but with the Russian "tourist" story is so shoddy it makes it almost ridiculous it could come from anyone bar them.

I'll be perfectly happy to say "Russia did it" if I come to believe Russia did it. And I agree the tourist story was shoddy and I said so. But I was coming from a position where already last week I didn't believe they were only tourists, yet still saw plenty of other reasons for them hiding something other than assassination. So I don't find myself facing a Tourist v Assassins decision.
 
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If you believe what you are actually typing, you need to go sit down for an hour away from a PC, have a coffee, then return to re-read what you typed with a critical view and tell me there's no bias or omission of sources and ignoring facts in that wall of text you typed.

That'd be your job. Point to what you take issue with. And I'll have a tea instead, please.


If you don't believe in what you are typing, then you are a good troll, but one with too much time on their hands

Actually your entire post is a troll post, and not a meaningful attempt to discuss the points raised, or points you wish to raise.
 
That'd be your job. Point to what you take issue with. And I'll have a tea instead, please.




Actually your entire post is a troll post, and not a meaningful attempt to discuss the points raised, or points you wish to raise.
OK,

Sources for 1 through 5.
6 is likely because he's still far from well i'd imagine... given that he had the same if not more than Yulia and he's obviously a lot older.

Interesting use of hidden text...
 
I think they are hiding something too. And then there's the official narrative which is so dodgy.

Brief recap:

1. Russia accused one week after incident but alleged traces of nerve agent in hotel only discovered on May 4th, two months later. Hotel isn't sealed off, investigators in hazmat suits aren't called in. Hotel manager isn't informed why his premises are being visited by police. Nobody who stayed at the hotel, and particularly in the same hotel room, is contacted as a precaution*. Instead, some more swabs are taken, all show up negative and the conclusion becomes that all of the nerve agent was removed by the first swabs instead of false identification or inconclusive. OPCW is not called to confirm the findings.

* Important - neither for precaution NOR to try and find additional traces of nerve agent on their suitcases etc, to serve as additional evidence for their case.

2. "Track record" and "motive" wheeled out immediately. Six months later, May is asked what the motive was. She waffles a bit, then says it's up to Russia to say. Well excuse me, but you accused them of motive six months ago, so it's also up to you. If track record and motive are suddenly so obvious, how was it not so obvious all along? How can it be argued that the risk to Skripal was determined to be so low that CCTVs were not installed in his street (I do not believe this) and then do a 360 and claim track record and motive are obvious?

3. Russia is the only one with this stuff/the actual stuff came from Russia. Turned out to be rubbish. USA, UK, Czech Republic, Iran, Germany all now known to research Novichok-type nerve agents. Porton Down contradicted Boris Johnson and said they cannot tell that this was Russian-made. Foreign Office tweets deleted.

4. Here come some crazy coincidences: Big month-long chemical weapons exercise in Salisbury due to end 6th March. 4th March there's actually a chemical attack. In Salisbury. First person to attend the Skripals on the bench was a military nurse and not just any army nurse but one with experience of treating Ebola in Sierra Leone. Skripals taken to Salisbury District Hospital. Two doctors in Salisbury District Hospital, on duty at that time, are freshly returned from a two-week course on chemical weapons and their effects, and are able to diagnose possible nerve agent symptoms. The preparation for what would happen is so excellent and in stark contrast to the woeful level (alleged) of surveillance and security for the Skripals.

5. Rain washed off most of the nerve agent on the handle overnight. Story changed to: nerve agent applied in broad daylight around noon 4th March.

6. After three to four hours, Yulia and Sergei both collapse at the exact same time with neither able to call for help. But Dawn Sturgess collapses minutes later. And Charlie Rowley succumbs more than eight hours later. The details do not help explain the synchronicity of the Skripal's symptoms nor the disparity in the onset of symptoms for Dawn and Charlie. If the nerve agent actually is intentionally slow acting, then Dawn would have collapsed hours not minutes later. And if some penetrated Charlie's nervous system even after washing his hands, then the symptoms should have taken less time (around three to four hours) to begin.

6. Six months on, and still no statement from Sergei Skripal himself.




The truth is rather that some people are able to not ignore dodginess from either side, but some are incapable of admitting dodginess from one side. The latter similar to the effect whereby political affiliations blind people to their own party's sins and are only able to see the other party's sins. @RoboCod for example.

Please, never stop posting such hilarious horse ****. It brightens up the day.
 
OK,

Sources for 1 through 5.

Is it possible you remain unaware of these facts available to the public, yet feel qualified to give advice to someone reminding others of said facts? Go ahead and show a bit of courage, tell me what you don't believe, and then I'll do a bit of homework for you and provide you with the source. If I fail to source something presented as fact, you win this little battle, I lose.


6 is likely because he's still far from well i'd imagine... given that he had the same if not more than Yulia and he's obviously a lot older.

We can imagine all we like. Maybe it's correct, maybe it's not. Neither of us would have to imagine if the medical authorities had provided an update (or were able to provide an update). Instead, the last thing they told us was that he'd been discharged from hospital (May 18th). Two months later, in Yulia's last reported phonecall to her cousin, on July 24th, we are told by her cousin that Yulia said her dad still has a tracheostomy tube inserted which will be removed in the next few days. It's now September 14th and no news.



Interesting use of hidden text...

Decided to address the "troll" comment.
 
6. After three to four hours, Yulia and Sergei both collapse at the exact same time with neither able to call for help. But Dawn Sturgess collapses minutes later. And Charlie Rowley succumbs more than eight hours later. The details do not help explain the synchronicity of the Skripal's symptoms nor the disparity in the onset of symptoms for Dawn and Charlie. If the nerve agent actually is intentionally slow acting, then Dawn would have collapsed hours not minutes later. And if some penetrated Charlie's nervous system even after washing his hands, then the symptoms should have taken less time (around three to four hours) to begin.

There is rarely any consistency in stuff like this anyhow - 2 people in close exposure can get very different doses or even one walk away completely unaffected while another dies immediately, etc. and in some cases different people have different resistance/dosage requirement for the same effect depending on body mass, etc.
 
There is rarely any consistency in stuff like this anyhow - 2 people in close exposure can get very different doses or even one walk away completely unaffected while another dies immediately, etc. and in some cases different people have different resistance/dosage requirement for the same effect depending on body mass, etc.

Okay. So explain the consistency in the synchronicity of the Skripal's collapse, which is part of the inconsistency.
 
Okay. So explain the consistency in the synchronicity of the Skripal's collapse, which is part of the inconsistency.

What is so unusual about it? if there had been 50 people its quite like say 40 of them would have exhibited the exact same symptoms and timescales while the other 10 were widely different.
 
If you used a story this shakey in a trial you'd be found guilty pretty quickly. The prosecutor would have a field day.

If this was two accused murderers giving their account to a Russian court, do you seriously think they would let them off? It's ridiculous that they think the rest of the world is going to believe them.

They blew it right from the go. Russia claimed they were never there to start with. The first thing these guys did was confirm they WERE there. Derp.
 
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