They have no right if she doesn't want to speak to them.
Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.
- Thread starter Malevolence
- Start date
They have no right if she doesn't want to speak to them.
That's a matter for debate and personally I disagree. But I wasn't wrong, and you did confuse things.
How can you possibly argue that a state has a right to access anyone?
It isn't a matter for debate, they have no inherent right to see her, she's perfectly entitled to refuse their request, that is simple fact whether you like it or not.
Evangelion was correct re: Russia claiming it had been denied consular access, that is the word the Russian Embassy used.
Because you would be arguing the exact same thing yourself, if you had any ounce of love for a family member who was held by Russian authorities incommunicado for over a month and then taken to a safehouse and told they didn't want you to visit or contact them, through a statement on their behalf by the Russian police.
you're kind of omitting a few rather pertinent facts like the family member already having had a phone call and choosing to make use of it for propaganda purposes + the state itself being the ones who put the person in a coma in the first place by trying to kill them!
You make a habit of continuing to try to confuse things. It's called fudging by the way.
Evangelion stated that Russia claimed consular access had been denied TO Yulia Skripal. You, on the other hand, fished out a Russian tweet about THEIR access being denied.
And you know this how? How do you know this whole thing hasn't been staged by another actor? "Facts" you say. Rubbish.
As for the cousin releasing the recording, it's what anyone concerned about their safety would do. "She's alive and well and actually so is her dad she says" (let's keep it that way).
Eh? Yes that is what they claimed and what I believe the other poster was referring to @Evangelion - you were referring to Russia claiming they'd been denied consular access right?
Oh sorry, I forgot, yes there are CT nutters in the thread who think it was a false flag... something something petro yuan, something something gold standard etc..etc..
I think it is rather relevant that the country trying to access her were the ones who poisoned her in the first place thus she's got good reason not to necessarily want a visit right away, especially as she was nearly killed by them and probably isn't feeling too healthy still.
There was no need to record the call and then broadcast it/get used as a pawn in Russian state propaganda, it would be a fairly good reason to not trust the cousin again after a stunt like that.
Why would the cousin record the phone call, it is not usually normal practice.
Edit: I mean if the call was out of the blue, which it was most likely as Yulia identified herself
Well, don't forget this either - there are official CT nutters in the thread, too.
Oh that's right, and deny a visa to her murderous cousin at the same time. It's interesting that the visa was denied well before this latest statement in which Yulia allegedly asks her cousin not to try to visit. They keep getting the chronology for their propaganda all wrong. First, you put out the statement with Yulia's request. Then, you deny the visa, in line with Yulia's request. Instead of the other way around.
Who are you to say there was no need? Are you Viktoria Skripal to know what she felt she needed to do? That same day that Yulia phoned her, the BBC and others continued to trot out that Sergei was critical but stable, and in a coma. Thanks to the phone call we learnt that was no longer true and the next day the authorities put out a statement admitting it.
This, a normal situation is definitely not...
... which is also why the statements to "please respect privacy" and let us disappear into obscurity, delivered by others, are another strong indicator of a staged event falling flat on its face with no evidence that the government's accusations were true.
OK, if you agree that Victoria didn't record the call (how could she if she wasn't expecting it, unless ofcourse it is normal for her to record every phone call, which would be most unusual) then who did? The obvious answer is the Russians state GCHQ equivelent. Which also begs another question, is that standard practice for them. if So Snowden didn't pick a very good place if he values his privacy!
Exactly
This doesn't disprove the governments accusations (of the use of a nerve agent) though. We need the OPCW report and testimony from the Skripals + all the evidence collected by the police. The chances of faking that to fool everyone involved including the medics is small to non. Which logically dictates that the nerve agent existed and was used. (although not proof the Russian's were behind it.)
Eh? What does Yulia have to do with the visa request - your perception of how the world works is a bit detached from reality, the UK doesn't deny a visa because another Russian citizen doesn't want their cousin visiting. The visa was denied (allegedly) because she didn't have sufficient funds available, she's welcome to re-apply for a UK visa - it has nothing to do with whether her cousin does or doesn't want to see her. I wouldn't be surprised if it was deliberate tbh... and again just used for propaganda by the Russians.
Because there was no need to record it, no one has lied about his condition - you're just grasping at straws now.
Why refer to her cousin (Victoria) as murderous, what has Victoria done
Perhaps the medical staff hadn't told the bbc and other media the change in circumstances, if the bbc new they would have reported it.
Perhaps she just isn't ready to appear in front of the media. It is certainly not proof of anything what so ever
Wow. You'll believe anything as long as it's official, won't you.
P.S. Did you know it was the BBC who were helping her with her visa application?
And you'll believe anything the Russian PR machine puts out.
(That claim re: the visa was unofficial though. But your idea that a visa could be denied because the cousin didn't want to see her is false, she's able to visit the UK if she meets the visa requirements)
"Unnamed government sources"? With no official denial or clarification? So nobody gets into trouble later for lying. It's become all too common with this case since Boris messed up. Yet it's all we have to go on, when it comes to trying to glean what the official narrative is.
I never said that. You missed my point - the chronology doesn't look good propaganda-wise. For the visa rejection to take place well before Yulia's alleged request for her cousin not to visit, does not look good. It gives the impression that she's toeing someone else's line. This is separate from any claim regarding why visas could be denied, which I did not make. I would certainly not entertain the notion that it was denied due to lack of funds, for a second, though. It is far more likely they have something to hide.
That was the implication "They keep getting the chronology for their propaganda all wrong." - if you don't mean to imply that "they" did anything here then how have "they" got anything wrong with regards to the visa? Visas don't get denied because some other person doesn't want a relative to visit the UK.
It is just not how things work, if she applies for a visa then someone processes it and it gets accepted/rejected upon some predefined criteria... it has nothing to do with propaganda from the UK side. The home secretary can deny entry to people for various reasons but that hasn't happened here, the visa application itself has been denied... your post just doesn't make any sense. There is nothing "interesting" about it other than perhaps the angle that the Russians might well have wanted her to be denied a visa as a PR move for them.