Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

arctine said:
And what do you think the government should do? They're withholding information from people who don't need it for the purpose of national security. They're sharing that information with a circle of those who do need it. That circle includes independent and even opposing bodies who all conclude the same thing; Russia needs to be the one providing an explanation.

Also to say the government is moving the goalposts by withholding information from its public is just laughable. They've always done that, it's not new.
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Who are these opposing bodies, and who are those that a independent other than the CW outfit?

The problem with independent bodies is that a lot of them really aren't in any real sense actually truly independent of state actors, why should they be... we don't live in that sort of world.
 
Roar87 said:
I don't see why they would want to lie about Russia doing it though […]
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I have talked extensively about motives and benefits for the UK and USA in doing so. Just search the thread for any instances of Dowie yelling "Conspiracy Theory!Conspiracy Theory!Conspiracy Theory!" and scroll to the post above. :)
 
h4rm0ny said:
They were actively looking for a way to justify the Iraq war. Their own experts were (until suicided) telling them there was no evidence. They actively worked to dismiss experts who contradicted the idea that Iraq had WMD (Bustani of the OPCW was ousted from a campaign by the USA) and they deliberately "sexed up" (their words) a dossier drawn largely from a Californian History grad student's thesis to create their key pieces of evidence. But sure, they were "duped". Who were they duped by, out of interest?
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An hour long video isn't entirely useful, you could atleast bullet point your issue.

Edit: hell i'm just gonna take a break from this for a bit, maybe the nukes will start flying and it'll be irrelevant anyway.
 
gettothechopper said:
OPCW agrees with our findings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43741140
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So I guess the "they might have got food poisoning down the pub" story is out. Oh and they've confirmed the high purity and identified the specific compound used.

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume it isn't one of the few Iran attempted to make - which then caused one poster to make a wild leap and conclude the UK govt was therefore lying.

Still people will believe what they want to believe and this thread has definitely attracted the loons.
 
dowie said:
yeah because of course they *might* have secretly kidnapped her right?
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They might have done, yes. If people with enough authority thought that it was in the interests of national security to keep her incommunicado under house arrest and they thought they could get away with doing so, they probably would. It could be explained away as being for her own protection, so they might well think they could get away with it. That would even have a degree of truth in it - if someone is at such risk that they need a safe house, it is a risk for them to communicate freely because that could give away enough information to find them. That's enough truth for political purposes.

I don't think they have done so in this case, but I do think they might have done so.
 
Angilion said:
I don't think they have done so in this case, but I do think they might have done so.
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Only in a very pedantic sense as in it is theoretically possible they could have. But realistically no, it just isn't plausible. According to reports she's been able to communicate with friends and family too. The police still answer to the law and there is plenty of attention on this case.
 
Danny75 said:
Because you would be arguing the exact same thing yourself, if you had any ounce of love for a family member who was held by Russian authorities incommunicado for over a month and then taken to a safehouse and told they didn't want you to visit or contact them, through a statement on their behalf by the Russian police.
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If she doesn't want to see/speak to the Russian state, then that is her choice - there is no law that I can find that compels her to be available to them.
 
so we do not get to see the full report , just state parties ?
presumably Russia sees it though, and could publish pertinant data ?
Was it Gavin Williamson in r5 2pm news, or another government representative, but they were saying the report confirmed a knowledgable party had delivered the nerve agent,
continuing to put russia in the frame - without disclosing what details these are -
why should this data be confidential, if anything it feeds conspiracy theory eg some other player is responsible so they don't want to disclose details.
If they do not want to show details because it may be of service to future attacks eg. DASH. then they could acknowledge that too

edit: re-listening radio article was referring to this Mark Sedwell letter on the back of the report
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._General_regarding_the_Salisbury_incident.pdf
(from here)
letter goes to pains of saying OPCW do not attribute responsibility, but nonetheless trying to use OPCW report to accredidate the government analysis, by association ?
some odd language

I would have course be pleased to brief you or NATO Allies further regarding this
attack. I know that NATO will remain seized of the need to confront the
increasingly aggressive pattern of Russia behaviour of which the attack in
Salisbury was an acute and recent example.
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Pretty obvious why it should be confidential.

Anyway wonder what the conspiraloons make of this:


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...a-skripals-emails-five-years-tested-novichok/

Yulia's e-mails hacked by Russia, Russia tested Novichok on door handles/trained people to use it in early 00s. Specific agent used verified by a third party now, no plausible alternative other than it was Russia.

Worrying thing is Corbyn probably had access to this int and still played dumb advocated nothing as usual.

"But but muh petro yuan, wake up sheeple, false flag is totally plausible etc..."
 
dowie said:
Yulia's e-mails hacked by Russia, Russia tested Novichok on door handles/trained people to use it in early 00s. Specific agent used verified by a third party now, no plausible alternative other than it was Russia.
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yes - this came from Sedwell letter - telegraph, if anything are sensationalising it .
 
Of course it was the ruskies, those reds under the bed do come out sometimes to kill folks.
Going to be interesting this Syria thing, will Trump blow seven shades out of the place and Russian troops? What will Putin do then? Escalate in a war he has absolutely no chance of winning?
 
sideways14a said:
Of course it was the ruskies, those reds under the bed do come out sometimes to kill folks.
Going to be interesting this Syria thing, will Trump blow seven shades out of the place and Russian troops? What will Putin do then? Escalate in a war he has absolutely no chance of winning?
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Both sides seem to be getting cold feet.

It looks like either strikes will be tonight or otherwise they'll be waiting until Truman CSG is in range or nothing will happen at all.
 
sideways14a said:
Of course it was the ruskies, those reds under the bed do come out sometimes to kill folks.
Going to be interesting this Syria thing, will Trump blow seven shades out of the place and Russian troops? What will Putin do then? Escalate in a war he has absolutely no chance of winning?
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You mistakenly think the war would be normal...
 
What do you mean normal? Do you think Putin might send his tanks into eastern europe attached to balloons filled with Helium ... floating tanks?
Or maybe his troops will be painted pink or something?

As for the other kind of war the one with ... big big bangs and radiation.. naa he aint going there, he is mad but not that mad.
 
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