Fuel price discussion thread (was ‘chaos’)

Journey · 21 Jun 2022 at 09:24

Greebo said:
Some industry experts reckon high fuel prices are here to stay and will continue to go up every year (by a smaller margin than this year but up to 20% each year) and by 2025 fuel at the pumps will be £3 per litre.

I'm convinced that there will be some segregation for HGV users and other critical industry, with relief given on taxes applied either via rebate or applying upfront for some form of fuel card type thing. As for the general populous they'll just have to suck it up, and learn to either waste less fuel, pool cars, or have shopping delivered etc.

Rroff · 21 Jun 2022 at 09:38

Journey said:
As for the general populous they'll just have to suck it up, and learn to either waste less fuel, pool cars, or have shopping delivered etc.

Some people are already doing that and/or it isn't a reality - this is going to really start hurting people soon which may be enough to produce protests.

My boss is talking about looking for another job as though fairly well paid he has already seen his fuel bill increase by £270/m since 2021 and he can't keep eating it or make much adjustment to his mileage.

Journey · 21 Jun 2022 at 09:46

Rroff said:
Some people are already doing that and/or it isn't a reality - this is going to really start hurting people soon which may be enough to produce protests.

Sadly personal use cars are a luxury for the majority not a necessity, as much as they'd like them to be thought of that way. The problem is people want the convenience but don't want to give it up if they can't afford it anymore, we live in a society now where want/need are so easily confused. People who have great PT links don't/won't use them, and those that need them and don't have them end up in a difficult position. I'm happy walking, cycling, using the bus/tram or train for nearly every journey I do, and could easily get rid of a car if I had to, the money saved would easily pay for a rental/taxi etc. on the few occasions I needed one, not everyone is as flexible or can frankly be bothered.

Rroff · 21 Jun 2022 at 09:55

Journey said:
Sadly personal use cars are a luxury for the majority not a necessity, as much as they'd like them to be thought of that way.

Plenty of people it is a necessity though. I live in a fairly rural area where transport links are patchy at best, cycling rarely a realistic option, etc.

Journey · 21 Jun 2022 at 09:56

Rroff said:
Plenty of people it is a necessity though. I live in a fairly rural area where transport links are patchy at best, cycling rarely a realistic option, etc.

I covered that in the parts of the quote you missed out quoting though.

Rroff · 21 Jun 2022 at 09:57

Journey said:
I covered that in the parts of the quote you missed out quoting though.

Overall though I think people have already cut out a lot of luxury mileage and still struggling - I'm not convinced we should be resigned to it being a luxury though - society seems to be going so backwards in some areas.

Rroff · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:00

On another note seeing a lot more people last 2-3 days who seem to be "hypermiling" got stuck behind 3 people doing ~45 in a 60 and from the approach to driving - easing off speed to avoid having to otherwise brake and then accelerate, etc. don't seem like your typical 40 everywhere types who usually brake a lot and overall have poor standard of driving.

Journey · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:01

Rroff said:
Overall though I think people have already cut out a lot of luxury mileage and still struggling - I'm not convinced we should be resigned to it being a luxury though - society seems to be going so backwards in some areas.

Producing 100's millions of personal vehicles isn't helping us move to a better future though really is it? Sometimes you go backwards to go forwards in a different direction, people want it all, all of the time and they must have it or we are living in the caveman era. Maybe everyone will end up with better PT links if fuel prices and vehicle prices stay high, which can only be a good thing.

Tinders · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:02

Journey said:
Sadly personal use cars are a luxury for the majority not a necessity, as much as they'd like them to be thought of that way. The problem is people want the convenience but don't want to give it up if they can't afford it anymore, we live in a society now where want/need are so easily confused. People who have great PT links don't/won't use them, and those that need them and don't have them end up in a difficult position. I'm happy walking, cycling, using the bus/tram or train for nearly every journey I do, and could easily get rid of a car if I had to, the money saved would easily pay for a rental/taxi etc. on the few occasions I needed one, not everyone is as flexible or can frankly be bothered.

Do you have children/family out of interest?

I live in a pretty deprived town, i would say a good 75% of normal working folk need their car for work at the very least.

[TW]Fox · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:03

Journey said:
Producing 100's millions of personal vehicles isn't helping us move to a better future though really is it?

That depends whether you consider a future where you have to get public transport or a shared car as 'better' than one where you've got your own personal transport whenever you want it and all the enjoyment that goes with cars and car ownership as a hobby. Many probably wouldn't consider that to be a better future, even though many others would.

Rroff · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:04

Tinders said:
Do you have children/family out of interest?

I live in a pretty deprived town, i would say a good 75% of normal working folk need their car for work at the very least.

It might be forced to change but that is the reality of working in this day and age. Most of my colleagues have no choice but to drive in - some are already, half seriously, talking about taking "shelf-stacking" jobs closer to home as they'd be better off without paying the fuel bill :s

On another note again - I amused myself at work going through the van fuel receipts from the last few days - there seems to be a reluctance to tip over the £2/l mark for diesel in the area with it rolling up and down 195.xx through to 199.99 - but any given garage just as it hits 199.xx seems to drop back to 195.xx and start going up the pence again.

Journey · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:10

Tinders said:
Do you have children/family out of interest?

I live in a pretty deprived town, i would say a good 75% of normal working folk need their car for work at the very least.

Yes, why?

My son walks everyday to his school which is 3.2km each way, and we go cycling as a family. I generally do around 10km walking/cycling each day, be that to the office/work or just for pleasure. The Mrs takes the car to work when the weather is inclement, but walks the 4.5km each way otherwise and that is sometimes carrying 10Kgs+ of stuff. I try not to be a total selfish hypocrite, unlike a lot of people who need their car to drive 2 miles to work.

Why do 75% of people need their car for work, or did you just pull that figure out of thin air?

Simon · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:13

Who has 1.5hr to walk to work everyday. We invented the wheel (and fire) for a reason.

Are you sure you aren’t just trolling with that above post ???

Tinders · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:19

Journey said:
Yes, why?

My son walks everyday to his school which is 3.2km each way, and we go cycling as a family. I generally do around 10km walking/cycling each day, be that to the office/work or just for pleasure. The Mrs takes the car to work when the weather is inclement, but walks the 4.5km each way otherwise and that is sometimes carrying 10Kgs+ of stuff. I try not to be a total selfish hypocrite, unlike a lot of people who need their car to drive 2 miles to work.

Why do 75% of people need their car for work, or did you just pull that figure out of thin air?

To address the last point 1st, the nearest trainstation is 4 miles away, bus network is patchy, barely any work locally so most people are travelling significant distances for jobs.

Im gonna be honest im impressed you have the time and inclination to do what you do, but its pretty naff existance in a developed country like ours, if it came to it i'd do what you do, but i wouldnt enjoy it!! Anyway i can imagine taking 3 primary aged kids cycling being a barrel of laughs

Simon · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:22

He also gets his water from the local well

Journey · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:27

Tinders said:
To address the last point 1st, the nearest trainstation is 4 miles away, bus network is patchy, barely any work locally so most people are travelling significant distances for jobs.

Im gonna be honest im impressed you have the time and inclination to do what you do, but its pretty naff existance in a developed country like ours, if it came i'd do what you do, but i wouldnt enjoy it!! Anyway i can imagine taking 3 primary aged kids cycling being a barrel of laughs

What do you mean the bus network is patchy, as in the re are few busses, they are infrequent, or they don't go where people need them to? My nearest train station is about the same distance, my closest bus stop has a bus every 30 mins during the day, and every hour off-peak, and you do need to change if you want to get anywhere other than a local shopping centre in either direction.

I think defining not running a car as a naff existence says a lot about the people of today, I find it far from naff, I enjoy walking in the woods, and spending time listening to the sounds of nature and getting some fresh air, rather than sat in a seat on a flat piece of road ending up in the same place.

Everyone has different views, obviously, doesn't mean they need to align. I just find it shocking that some people refuse to try walking, or using public transport, as they deserve a car, or similar attitude.

EDIT: Here's a pic from my walk to work yesterday.

mid_gen · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:29

Journey said:
Maybe everyone will end up with better PT links if fuel prices and vehicle prices stay high, which can only be a good thing.

Are you living in an alternate reality where we have a government that isn't continuing a decade-long mission to slash and burn public services? This rail strike has come about due to the massive budget cuts being imposed.

We won't get improved public anything for a very long time in this country.

Robbo · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:34

Public transport depends entirely on where you live for starters. Around here, a 15 minute car journey can take 3 hours by bus. It's hopeless.

Aside from that, you wouldn't be able to pay me to sit on a packed train/bus, however effective it may be, unless there was no other option.

Simon · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:34

Journey said:
Everyone has different views, obviously, doesn't mean they need to align. I just find it shocking that some people refuse to try walking, or using public transport, as they deserve a car, or similar attitude.

You said it yourself. Everyone has different views, so why the preaching ?

Journey · 21 Jun 2022 at 10:36

Robbo said:
Public transport depends entirely on where you live for starters.

Already said this in my post.

Robbo said:
Around here, a 15 minute car journey can take 3 hours by bus. It's hopeless.

Precisely the point with low demand and no reason to improve it.

Robbo said:
Aside from that, you wouldn't be able to pay me to sit on a packed train/bus, however effective it may be, unless there was no other option.

Nail on head, people can't shout and scream about fuel prices if they REFUSE to use other options, that is just stupid. Right?