Game of Thrones prequel House of the Dragon

C Kent · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:08

Junglist said:
They should've just did it without making a big deal about it. Sure, some people would still cry about it but then it wouldn't give the impression that it's all about inclusion.

Still, inclusion shouldn't be viewed as some bad thing. Bad writing should always be called out though.

No ones saying inclusion is bad?

C Kent said:
Whereas shows that don't and concentrate on telling a good story have all been great to watch, even ones with shock horror, minority characters and women leads.

C Kent · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:08

chroniclard said:
Superstore, Brooklyn 99, Orange is the New Black(not my cup of tea really but wife likes it), Schitt’s Creek.

You are just naming shows with minority leads or lgb characters, that's not the point.

chroniclard · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:13

C Kent said:
You are just naming shows with minority leads or lgb characters, that's not the point.

You dont have much of a point.

Those are all good shows with diverse casts. You dont get to arbitrarily decide if a show has been made in a woke manner or not to feed your fake culture wars.

Junglist · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:15

C Kent said:
No ones saying inclusion is bad?

I didn't say you said that. However there are those, on this very form, who see anything such as inclusion as nothing else but 'wokeism'. Strong female character? Oh that's woke. An Ethnic character? Oh that's a woke diversity hire. Someone isn't straight? Insta-Woke.

Representation isn't a bad thing to have in tv/movies, especially if they're ones based in Fantasy-Land. If a story is well written it shouldn't matter what they people look like as long as they are interesting characters in a captivating story.

C Kent · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:16

chroniclard said:
You dont have much of a point. Those are all good shows with diverse casts. You dont get to arbitrarily decide if a show has been made in a woke manner or not to feed your fake culture wars.

Its not my problem that you are seemingly unable to grasp the most basic of differences between a show with a diverse cast and a show that makes the main focus of said show about having a diverse cast.

Junglist · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:20

To be fair, that is a good point. Rather than make that the focus in adverts leading up to it, they should've just let it play out normally.

IvanDobskey · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:27

I have no problems with diversity, as long as they are well written characters. But the problem is that as soon as they become more interested in ticking boxes, the writing goes out the window

One of the best characters in the original series was Tyrion (until they ran out of things for him to do near the end). And you can't get much more diverse than him.

Maybe this will be different and my suspicions are misplaced, but I seriously doubt it from what I have seen and heard so far.

chroniclard · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:33

C Kent said:
Its not my problem that you are seemingly unable to grasp the most basic of differences between a show with a diverse cast and a show that makes the main focus of said show about having a diverse cast.

This is not the main focus, this is just what you decided is the main focus.

Darujhistan · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:42

chroniclard said:
Bad writing is bad writing, those are legitimate criticisms. Diversity makes no difference to the quality of a show or its writing. Its just pointless raging to no effect from those who refuse to move with the times. Tiresome bigotry in thread after thread.

Forced diversity, race swapping, white man bad, mary-sue's, tokenism, smash the patriarchy, virtue signalling and woke politics all decrease the quality of a show. Irresepctive of how bad the original narrative is. And we see time and time and time again the poor story-telling stems of deciding the show is basically another vehichle for woke proagada with a marektable IP slapped on it, rather than simply entertaining people with an engaging story, you can pretend all you like that it's just "bad writing" but you're wrong.

People can see these shows for what they are, thinly-vieled propangada, just calling people "racist" as you are doing, and expecting people will be cowed into silence as they're scared of termed a a "bigot" isn't working. That tactic has no power any more. It is actually people like you who are behind the times and only have a surface level understanding of the subject, which lacks nuance.

IvanDobskey · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:47

Darujhistan said:
Forced diversity, race swapping, white man bad, mary-sue's, tokenism, smash the patriarchy, virtue signalling and woke politics all decrease the quality of a show. Irresepctive of how bad the original narrative is. And we see time and time and time again the poor story-telling stems of deciding the show is basically another vehichle for woke proagada with a marektable IP slapped on it.

People can see these shows for what they are thinly-vieled propangada, just calling people "racist" as you are doing, and expecting people will be cowed into silence as they're scared opf being cvalled racist isn't worrking any more. That tactic has no power any more. It is actually people like you who are behind the times...

Bang on the money with that.

You can have great strong female characters and great diverse characters. But they have to be believable and well written.

Too often they are there to just tick boxes and shove an agenda down your throat these days though.

It's cheap, it's lazy and it ruins a show.

C Kent · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:49

chroniclard said:
This is not the main focus, this is just what you decided is the main focus.

So why don't the show runners shut the **** up about it then? They way they carry on about it would be similar to an author writing a fantasy novel and then spend the prologue telling you why they've gone with a black queer transgender elf as the hero and then bring up the fact that they are black queer transgender ever chapter. It's fantasy, just tell a bloody story.

Darujhistan · 22 Jul 2022 at 13:59

IvanDobskey said:
Bang on the money with that.

You can have great strong female characters and great diverse characters. But they have to be believable and well written.

Too often they are there to just tick boxes and shove an agenda down your throat these days though.

It's cheap, it's lazy and it ruins a show.

The only shows/movies that get it right are the ones that haven't got an agenda to begin with. It's an amazing really that the actual racists and misandrists are the ones screaming about how diverse they are. Because the people who are making a "creative" entertainment product rather than a "propaganda" entertainment product, aren't concerning themselves with race/gender in a political way at all. That why thier shows/movies work, and all the woke tv is garbage.

Darujhistan · 22 Jul 2022 at 14:02

chroniclard said:
This is not the main focus, this is just what you decided is the main focus.

It is the main focus though, that's why they talk about it, that's what amazon talk about, that's basically all amazon have talked about...

n111ck · 22 Jul 2022 at 14:03

As this is a prequel series it doesn't make sense for old Westeros to be more right-on than contemporary Westeros..

chroniclard · 22 Jul 2022 at 14:14

End of the day the story/writing/production > made up woke issues.

Fubsy · 22 Jul 2022 at 14:25

It's not happening guys, it's made up.

Made up, just like the fantasy series that feels the need to mirror our societies issues, as if the writers can't come up with an alternative world with fantasy societal dynamics and issues.

Woke issues aren't made up, they are inserted into every bit of media (news, YouTube, tiktok, Netflix, Hollywood etc etc etc) and just because you are blind to it, or just do not care, doesn't mean they don't exist.

My take? I just don't take notice anymore either, but I won't defend it as a 'non issue'.

We are sliding down a helter-skelter of postmodern interpretations of our world, and who the **** knows what's at the bottom.

One thing I do know, it won't be quality media if this carries on.

kinetic747 · 22 Jul 2022 at 14:33

Banning the word woke from the English language would be a great start. :mad:

chroniclard · 22 Jul 2022 at 14:35

Majority of these "woke" issues are not issues at all, just in the minds of raging righties.

Fubsy · 22 Jul 2022 at 14:51

chroniclard said:
Majority of these "woke" issues are not issues at all, just in the minds of raging righties.

Then why are they brought up all the time by businesses, advertisers, media companies, celebrities etc if that aren't actually issues in the first place?

There are clearly societal issues around race, sex, gender, sexuality, nationality, religion blah blah blah as it's thrown in our faces at every turn, or do you deny this actually happens?

Or are you claiming all those issues are not actually issues at all and none of it exists? Well, that's quite a claim.

Random Guy Esq. · 22 Jul 2022 at 15:03

Whoosh.