Geforce GTX1180/2080 Speculation thread

[bigmike20vt]

I just realised something that I probably should have realised when these were first announced

Are some of the features reliant upon Nvidia's cloud/datacentre/whatever? Like DLSS for example?

What happens to these features when Nvidia release their follow-up generations, do they just switch it off for the 20x0 series cards, leaving owners with little choice but to upgrade?

Same goes for RT going forward. We already heard from Dice in relation to Battlefield V that Ray Tracing won't work on AMD cards or older generation GTX cards (even though it could by using Microsoft's API) because Nvidia don't want that.

So what's to stop them disabling RT on these cards once the 30x0 series appears? Not saying they will but what if? Nothing to stop them if it's baked into the games for RTX only.

i dont think it works like that does it? i thought devs sent their code to NV who then "trained" it to use the DLSS then sent back the "trained" software.

that way once it is done it is done and will work offline, no need to connect to the cloud

or am i wrong?

(my question is, can the software "learn" from our side, ie if i turn on DLSS in one of my games now and play it for 1000 hrs.... will a benchmark ran after 1000 hrs be different to the benchmark before then? if so perhaps that is what the cloud is useful for to improve based off of cloud gaming.

 

[Satchfanuk]

i dont think it works like that does it? i thought devs sent their code to NV who then "trained" it to use the DLSS then sent back the "trained" software.

that way once it is done it is done and will work offline, no need to connect to the cloud

or am i wrong?

(my question is, can the software "learn" from our side, ie if i turn on DLSS in one of my games now and play it for 1000 hrs.... will a benchmark ran after 1000 hrs be different to the benchmark before then? if so perhaps that is what the cloud is useful for to improve based off of cloud gaming.

Hmmm, not sure tbh, guess there wasn't really enough information to know for certain how it all works but hopefully that will become much clearer after release and benchmarks/reviews etc.

I sure hope it's what you think and not what I said. Knowing Nvidia though, based on previous shenanigans, I wouldn't put it past them

 

[LePhuronn]

...my question is, can the software "learn" from our side, ie if i turn on DLSS in one of my games now and play it for 1000 hrs.... will a benchmark ran after 1000 hrs be different to the benchmark before then? if so perhaps that is what the cloud is useful for to improve based off of cloud gaming...

It's not that complex, though is it? The card isn't "learning" anything, isn't it just using AI compute capabilities to determine the best way of anti-aliasing a scene? Unless Nvidia go all Skynet on us, I don't think an RTX card is going to gain sentience enough to change its mind on how to process the same scene later on.

And I dread to think what the privacy advocates would make of an RTX card logging how it processed some visuals, uploading the results to a central server, comparing it to other results and then disseminating the best approach back down to all clients. But my god that would be so cool!

 

[bru]

Ok so what do you all think about Jensen standing on stage telling us all that the RTX 2070 for $499 will give us faster performance than the Titan XP, I know the first thought is that he meant ray tracing, but if the Titan XP cannot do ray tracing, then surely that is no competition at all.
I've got the funny feeling that we are going to be quite surprised with the RTX performance once the reviews finally arrive.

The lifting of NDA'S come soon enough.

 

[LePhuronn]

I've got the funny feeling that we are going to be quite surprised with the RTX performance once the reviews finally arrive.

I can guarantee we'll be very surprised. I'm unsure if it'll be positive or negative surprise...

 

[Paladine]

Covered perfectly, thanks mate.

You’d think they’d want people to get hyped before pre-order, given how proud they are of the new product. Wonder why they’ve split the embargo lift dates for different tier cards, especially the ti. The time frame for cancelling pre-orders is strangely narrow...

No it isn't. You have 14 days from the day you receive the product - so this time frame is no issue at all for cancellations.

 

[Jeps]

i am in exactly the same boat, i keep hovering over the msi £599 one.... but IF the 2080 does turn out to be good i will definitely get buyers remorse for the sake of £115!

i know what the sensible decision is..... wait for black friday. but i have a proper urge for something shiny!.

You would be covered by the 14 day DSR policy so could potentially return the 1080ti for a full refund if the 2080 turns out to be good. Its a bit of a pain in the bum but all you'd be down in is the postage cost in sending it back though. I've personally gone for the MSI 1080ti as i don't think the 2080 is going to have the performance to justify its price tag.

 

[melmac]

Ok so what do you all think about Jensen standing on stage telling us all that the RTX 2070 for $499 will give us faster performance than the Titan XP, I know the first thought is that he meant ray tracing, but if the Titan XP cannot do ray tracing, then surely that is no competition at all.
I've got the funny feeling that we are going to be quite surprised with the RTX performance once the reviews finally arrive.

The lifting of NDA'S come soon enough.

It was only in relation to Ray Tracing. Even Ryan Shrout from PcPer has said this. I won't be surprised by it's performance in Normal games. Tom Petersen has already come out and said what the performance will be in those games. 35 to 45% faster. Not sure why nobody is believing him. And if he can't say categorically that the 2080 will beat the 1080ti than I am highly doubtful that the 2070 will beat the Titan Xp in normal games.

 

[Legend]

It was only in relation to Ray Tracing. Even Ryan Shrout from PcPer has said this. I won't be surprised by it's performance in Normal games. Tom Petersen has already come out and said what the performance will be in those games. 35 to 45% faster. Not sure why nobody is believing him. And if he can't say categorically that the 2080 will beat the 1080ti than I am highly doubtful that the 2070 will beat the Titan Xp in normal games.

The 2080 has to beat the 1080Ti. If it doesn't, and convincingly enough, the 19th will see a flood of pre-order cancellations and within a few days you won't be able to find a 1080Ti for love or money lol! I know Nvidia want to clear out old stock, but that would be a step too far haha!

Reviews will not be able to test RTX, obviously, as there is nothing to test it with... therefore people will initially be making a purchasing decision SOLELY on the basis of the raw performance of these cards in current games and what the benchmarks on these show. If the 2080 is level pegging with the 1080Ti (or god forbid worse), but for £150 more, you'd have to be a complete fool to buy one. Even die-hard Nvidia fanboys won't be able to swallow that one. Nvidia will know this and the bashing they will get in the tech press and subsequent damage to their reputation will be immense. I don't see why they would do that to themselves, they're just not that stupid. I'm quite sure we will see the 2080 beat the 1080Ti just enough to justify its purchase. It won't crush it though... that's what the 2080Ti is for.

 

[WantoN]

No it isn't. You have 14 days from the day you receive the product - so this time frame is no issue at all for cancellations.

Much better for NVs unit figures on launch day if people return the product rather than cancel their pre-orders though eh? What happened to their approach when Pascal launched? It was awesome, clear demonstration of what a great job they'd done, and how superior it was to the previous generation with benchmarks on the day.

I don't understand why people are defending this new approach, sure say it doesn't bother you, or it doesn't affect your desire for one. But why try to make an NDA on reviews until the day before the products launch / ship seem reasonable?

I've got the funny feeling that we are going to be quite surprised with the RTX performance once the reviews finally arrive.

I really hope so mate, and I hope it's a positive suprise, not a negative one. I'd be gutted for people on here who've spent so much money on their hobby, been so excited and then receive a product that doesn't even deliver performance improvements in line with previous generations, let alone their expectations.

 

[melmac]

The 2080 has to beat the 1080Ti. If it doesn't, and convincingly enough, the 19th will see a flood of pre-order cancellations and within a few days you won't be able to find a 1080Ti for love or money lol! I know Nvidia want to clear out old stock, but that would be a step too far haha!

Reviews will not be able to test RTX, obviously, as there is nothing to test it with... therefore people will initially be making a purchasing decision SOLELY on the basis of the raw performance of these cards in current games and what the benchmarks on these show. If the 2080 is level pegging with the 1080Ti (or god forbid worse), but for £150 more, you'd have to be a complete fool to buy one. Even die-hard Nvidia fanboys won't be able to swallow that one. Nvidia will know this and the bashing they will get in the tech press and subsequent damage to their reputation will be immense. I don't see why they would do that to themselves, they're just not that stupid. I'm quite sure we will see the 2080 beat the 1080Ti just enough to justify its purchase. It won't crush it though... that's what the 2080Ti is for.

Haven't you read this thread? There are people who pre-ordered who have stated that 5% improvement over the 1080Ti would be good enough to pay £150 for.

You are paying for the Tensor and RT cores. Anybody buying these cards is paying the adoption tax for the beginning of completely new tech for Consumers GPUs. The cards are been sold based on that.

And have you watched the interview with Tom Petersen? You should watch it. Especially watch the way he dodges the question when asked is the 2080 faster than the 1080ti in normal games. His answer. I think it will be faster in some games but I don't have my info at hand. Yes, right, as if he doesn't know exactly what the performance will be.

I am pretty certain that the 2080 will be roughly on par with the 1080ti. Faster in some games, slower in others. When games come out that use DLSS and RT, then the 2080 will be much faster than the 1080ti in those games. It will crush the 1080ti in RT. DLSS is the thing we don't really know anything about, can it be put into older games? Will it be used in every game going forward, how exactly does it work and how good does it look and lastly what performance levels will it bring.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Yeah, you're paying for the ray tracing that you can't use, unless you don't mind 1080p at less than 60fps on the Ti, which will be even less on the 2080 and 70.

 

[LePhuronn]

If the 2080 is level pegging with the 1080Ti (or god forbid worse), but for £150 more, you'd have to be a complete fool to buy one. Even die-hard Nvidia fanboys won't be able to swallow that one.

"But ray tracing is the future, and when more games come to support it we'll have the hardware to run it".

So buying a card based on speculative future performance? And yet AMD's "fine wine" is somehow decried as idiotic...

 

[XeNoNF50]

Haven't you read this thread? There are people who pre-ordered who have stated that 5% improvement over the 1080Ti would be good enough to pay £150 for.

You are paying for the Tensor and RT cores. Anybody buying these cards is paying the adoption tax for the beginning of completely new tech for Consumers GPUs. The cards are been sold based on that.

And have you watched the interview with Tom Petersen? You should watch it. Especially watch the way he dodges the question when asked is the 2080 faster than the 1080ti in normal games. His answer. I think it will be faster in some games but I don't have my info at hand. Yes, right, as if he doesn't know exactly what the performance will be.

I am pretty certain that the 2080 will be roughly on par with the 1080ti. Faster in some games, slower in others. When games come out that use DLSS and RT, then the 2080 will be much faster than the 1080ti in those games. It will crush the 1080ti in RT. DLSS is the thing we don't really know anything about, can it be put into older games? Will it be used in every game going forward, how exactly does it work and how good does it look and lastly what performance levels will it bring.

DLSS sounds like it could reduce some of the overhead on the CUDA cores. If that is the case, it should increase our framerates. But maybe game devs may see that by implementing it, it frees up that extra graphical power that can be put to good use elsewhere, helping to increase the visual fidelity of our games further. May see decent uptick as a result?

 

[JediFragger]

And yet AMD's "fine wine" is somehow decried as idiotic...

Seem's like AMD Finewine(tm) is failing a bit with Vega, still neck and neck with the 1080 (generally)

Maybe their driver guy has had a lot of holiday's this year

 

[WantoN]

"But ray tracing is the future, and when more games come to support it we'll have the hardware to run it".

So buying a card based on speculative future performance? And yet AMD's "fine wine" is somehow decried as idiotic...

Hmmm... Good point mate, didn't think of it.

 

[Legend]

Haven't you read this thread? There are people who pre-ordered who have stated that 5% improvement over the 1080Ti would be good enough to pay £150 for.

You are paying for the Tensor and RT cores. Anybody buying these cards is paying the adoption tax for the beginning of completely new tech for Consumers GPUs. The cards are been sold based on that.

And have you watched the interview with Tom Petersen? You should watch it. Especially watch the way he dodges the question when asked is the 2080 faster than the 1080ti in normal games. His answer. I think it will be faster in some games but I don't have my info at hand. Yes, right, as if he doesn't know exactly what the performance will be.

I am pretty certain that the 2080 will be roughly on par with the 1080ti. Faster in some games, slower in others. When games come out that use DLSS and RT, then the 2080 will be much faster than the 1080ti in those games. It will crush the 1080ti in RT. DLSS is the thing we don't really know anything about, can it be put into older games? Will it be used in every game going forward, how exactly does it work and how good does it look and lastly what performance levels will it bring.

Of course some people would accept that, but the majority will not. Nvidia will get ripped if the 2080 is indeed worse in some cases. I certainly don't expect it to be a great value upgrade... 25% (in line with price increase) is a pipe dream I think, but anything above 10% average and Nvidia will avoid a serious backlash, even if people do moan and complain.

I don't think it will be exactly on par with the 1080Ti (i.e literally no better), and I don't think that Petersen interview proves anything either way, other than he doesn't really know. Drivers are probably still being tweaked for a start. DLSS will of course be a factor and such games will see a big boost. I still think the 2080 will edge the 1080Ti more than some people think, but of course I might be wrong.

 

[JediFragger]

I still think the 2080 will edge the 1080Ti more than some people think, but of course I might be wrong.

I'm expecting roughly 10%, but it'd be nice for buyers to get more

 

[WantoN]

Of course some people would accept that, but the majority will not. Nvidia will get ripped if the 2080 is indeed worse in some cases. I certainly don't expect it to be a great value upgrade... 25% (in line with price increase) is a pipe dream I think, but anything above 10% average and Nvidia will avoid a serious backlash, even if people do moan and complain.

Unfortunately, some people perceptions are always biased. I'm in the same camp as you, that's roughly the performance I'm expecting. I really hope we're wrong though, otherwise people like the chap below are going to be very dissapointed.

Got my £750 ready. Just waiting on Nvidia to ship my shiny new 2080 now and am eagerly excited to see it spank the 1080Ti in gaming benchmarks.

I was pretty excited to pick up a new ti. The more I read, the more NV 'revealed' and the later the NDA lift became, it was clear to me how it was going to be and I wanted no part in it.

I think your figures are spot on, 10% and people will be able to convince themselves that it was the right choice, and there shouldn't be too much public backlash. Less than that and even the keenest buyers remorse evader will be pretty narked. I hope we're all surpised and it's around 40%, everyone can be happy and people won't feel stiffed.

 

[Legend]

I'm expecting roughly 10%, but it'd be nice for buyers to get more

I would guess around that also. And in spite of all the RTX features, DLSS etc. that Nvidia (and the die hard fans) would no doubt point to as reasons why this card is worth it, the fact remains that for MOST people, when it comes to making a purchase decision, they will simply be looking at the benchmarks for existing games. If those figures don't show an improvement, no matter how small it may be, it IS going to dent sales significantly. Nvidia know this, so short of GPU technology having reached its zenith with Pascal, and human technological limits permitting any further % increase (outside of RTX), Nvidia really have no reason to have not given the 2080 a nice bump so that we see at least 10%+ over the 1080Ti. Fingers crossed...