Caporegime
Consoles are more limited by their CPUs. You are forgetting the fact they have the equivalent processing power per core of an Atom from a few years ago.
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Geforce GTX1180/2080 Speculation thread
- Thread starter Tommy_Here
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Consoles are more limited by their CPUs. You are forgetting the fact they have the equivalent processing power per core of an Atom from a few years ago.
Associate
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Meanwhile:
Steam is hitting its biggest user count decline in years
Could be down to a combination of things i.e. poor PC Market, lack of curation, etc.
Steam is hitting its biggest user count decline in years
Could be down to a combination of things i.e. poor PC Market, lack of curation, etc.
Soldato
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true their cpu is terrible.... but their gpu aint great either. to the metal coding helps however imo (and i hope i am wrong btw i am no pc only fanboy) but i think the days of a console launching which matches a PC blow for blow in terms of raw performance are behind us now.... even the MS "scarlet" i think will only be at the level of mid range gaming laptop when it launches.........
I bet a fair chunk of wedge that even when it comes out in 2020 my current cpu (4.25ghz i7 5820) which is 3 years old now and will be 5 years old then, and my gtx 1180 which at that point will probably be 2 years old will smoke it.
This was not the case when the xbox360 came out in 2005 (the radeon in the xbox 360 was more advanced than the top range ATI card at the time at least for a few months) but I do not think MS or anyone else will be prepared to take that kind of hit on selling a console again.
PS... Steam...... The things i want to say about steam/valve esp regarding the stuff they allow on their store however I suspect i would get hit with a moderation stick if i did!.
Caporegime
Its probably because the PC devs do what they do best,just keep fragmenting the market more and more. Every games is moving towards its only launcher,so instead of going through Steam,so the numbers will start to drop even more.
So soon you not only need a Steam account,but a UPlay one,Origin one,Blizzard one,Bethesda one,2K Games one,and so on.
Plus lets make everything on PC be about online surivival or "emergent gameplay" and "early access" so we can get you the game "quicker". No,its all about penny pinching and cost cutting. You had devs like Crytek push the boat with FarCry and Crysis.
Now,"online" means they can limit the time you can use the game,and it means you rent the game,plus once a new pack comes out,you need to get it to keep later. "Emergent gameplay" is an easy way to cutout the need to script proper AI,complex stories,have proper voice acting,etc so you can use cheaper asset flips. "Early access" is a way to make you pay for an alpha or beta game,where,one of the most expensive aspects of game development is optimising the game properly does not happen -look at ARK for example. Devs have made alphas and betas which tended to be free or you got paid in some way to play them. Now its the other way.
Hence,why PC gamers are throwing so much money at Star Citizen - PC gamers want a proper AAA PC title,not another cash grab.
I think its impossible for consoles to threaten the PC gaming market in any significant way - as long as there are consoles, there will be PC's behind them getting better and better. Sure, games may be made more for consoles first, but they are so simmilar to PC builds they are not really 'ported' anymore, just released in full on the PC.
Consoles are one upping on the big screen play area for sure, but thats more a happy coincidence that their GPU provider supports an open VRR method that should be adopted by all manufacturers in the next 12 months. (Sorry Switch fans!)
Consoles are one upping on the big screen play area for sure, but thats more a happy coincidence that their GPU provider supports an open VRR method that should be adopted by all manufacturers in the next 12 months. (Sorry Switch fans!)
Soldato
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I agree about the types of gaming but the above statement almost made me spit out my coffee. IMO this game is looking more and more like a cashgrab, and sadly the starcitizen part has gone to forced MP now where as it used to be to have a slider to keep yourself mostly in your own bubble with just friends. Coversely the co-op portion of S42 has been dropped.
I am still just about hanging there as a backer but the game is getting more and more away from what i wanted, esp now VR is low down on their developent and the P2W side of the game just gets worse (not only ships, but buying the best land and I am pretty sure you can buy other stuff too... and the game is still no where near out yet!).
whilst I agree the different launchers etc are a pain for different games, TBH i do not see why ubisoft or MS should be expected to give valve 30% of their revenue to be on their stores.... imo them moving away from steam is NOT penny pinching. this attitude that valve deserve 30% of everyones game to be on steam has never groked with me.
Soldato
Have a look here what can be done with the RX480/470 the PS4Pro has and these at 4K 60fps constant.
The usual forced cap on 30fps on games, is down to keep compatibility with the PS4.
But PS5 is going to be more powerful and that limitation goes out of the window.
Caporegime
The XBox 360 and PS3 were not as advanced as people think. Even the PS3 GPU was good,but it had half the ROPs and only half the bandwidth of the PC equivalent.
Their CPUs were in-order jobbies which had very poor single threaded performance and you forget the major limitation......RAM. In fact the consoles were actually only meant to have 256MB of RAM,but apparently devs pushed for 512MB of RAM.
The RAM was a massive limitation,hence why texture quality kind of stagnated even for years on PC,and why now you are starting to see more and more VRAM heavy games.
It also lead to some interesting technical solutions - one of them was the megatexturing tech used by id Software in Rage,but one of the most interesting ones was by Bethesda Games Studios(yes that company known for its buggy game and meh graphics) in Skyrim. Ever realised why you only have loading screens going into interior cells and DLC areas?? They implemented streaming tech which was later used in similar ways by more open world games.
I know its become a cash grab but it shows how many people were desperate enough to throw money at a cutting edge AAA PC only exclusive.
Lots of PC gamers moaned at Crysis and Crytek,but now in retrospect it was a massive achievement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcYA-H3qpTI
Just watch that video - consoles couldn't do what Crytek achieved on PC.
Also where did I say not being with Valve was penny pinching - that part was about the increasing fragmentation with a 100 million launchers each doing their same thing and people need to have a 100 different accounts.
The penny pinching part is the lack of devs,truly optimising for the power of PC using old jaded engines,which barely use more than a few cores properly and the ones which do,are more down to consoles. Then putting out features like texture packs with uncompressed textures which just eat VRAM.
The other penny pinching is not doing proper QA/QC and now selling that as a "feature".
All these mean PC games need to brute force things - I want the PC to be more efficient so it concentrates on using that power in games,not to overcome penny pinching devs who are making us spend more money.
The other is pushing online games,so they can cut back on proper stories,scripting,AI,voice actors,etc. Also,now like consoles trying to push the PC as a game rental platform,ie,you need to keep handing money over and once they cut the servers,the games are not playable. Oh,also increasingly locking down modding.
They are making PCs more like consoles,and not even the good aspects,whilst we have to spend more on hardware.
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Caporegime
OTH,I hope RTX is supported by the GTX1100/GTX2000 series.
Its about time the PC pushes something vastly different from consoles!!
Its about time the PC pushes something vastly different from consoles!!
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Associate
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PUBG losing nearly a million players since January and Fortnite going stratospheric are bigger contributors I think. Lack of curation always seemed like on odd argument to me. Are people really struggling to find something decent to play? Steam still has 2 million more users than last year so I don't think they need to worry just yet.
Valve could almost certainly afford to reduce their cut. Problem is it's an industry standard so if they reduce it, most places would have to follow to stay competitive, and some of the smaller sellers might not survive.
Maybe if other places like Origin reduced their cut from 30% they would become more attractive alternatives to steam, but for whatever reason they're happy to keep the status quo
Caporegime
Maybe Valve could actually and go and make some new games - instead they are quite happy to take their cut from Steam and not bother. Its hilarious once they hit the second game of a series,they don't seem to be able to make a third one. HL2,L4D,Portal 2,DOTA 2,TF2,etc.
Consoles are already starting to copy PC's anyway... we're seeing more crossover than ever, and the devopment cycles have been cut in an effort to keep pace. We aren't ever going to see a 7-year gap between console generations as we did between the PS3 and PS4, no way. I do feel we are heading more towards some sort of homogenisation, although it's really hard to imagine where we'll be in 5-10 years time. I think the landscape will look quite different to how it does today.
The suggestion some have made that PC gaming is fading away is absurd though. There will ALWAYS be a need for high end PC's for a multitude of uses, gaming is just one of those. Some people seem to have a very peculiar view on this topic, and because they can't afford one THEMSELVES (not that you need to spend £3K to play the latest games as some think), they somehow label it redundant. This is a very, VERY peculiar point of view, but it's one I come across frequently. An extremely blinkered and self-centered way of looking at the world.
The suggestion some have made that PC gaming is fading away is absurd though. There will ALWAYS be a need for high end PC's for a multitude of uses, gaming is just one of those. Some people seem to have a very peculiar view on this topic, and because they can't afford one THEMSELVES (not that you need to spend £3K to play the latest games as some think), they somehow label it redundant. This is a very, VERY peculiar point of view, but it's one I come across frequently. An extremely blinkered and self-centered way of looking at the world.
Caporegime
I love how some defend some of the ****** practices on PC like making excuses for devs,pushing unoptimised games at higher prices(early access),using old engines which use one or two cores at most,and pushing eveything online to save on money,as being "not being able to afford stuff". Same excuses made by defenders of microtransactions.
You only need to see a game like ARK or even the company behind Star Citizen,treating PC owners like crap,and pushing dates further and further into the future. Then look at Crysis and see how it utterly owned even the "latest consoles".
All this means is the PC has a lot of potential being wasted by penny pinching devs,who then work wonders with Atom class CPUs and the equivalent of a RX470 or RX480.
Sure,people like me having a GTX1080 and a £400 qHD monitor makes us so not for PC gaming in general.
Criticism of PC gaming is not indicative of a hatred of PCs,but having some expectations,and expecting more and devs will only make better PC games,if gamers actually push them to.
It was the same blinkered,self centred people who attacked industry commenters on microtransactions saying they were needed since they were fans of the game companies more than being gamers,and see where that went. They even all went quiet once EA said they were not really needed.
If people have zero expectations,expect to get reheated console ports,or games strung along on some decade old engine,or more MOBAS,and Battle Royale games.
Edit!!
Also I am somewhat excited at the GTX1100/GTX2000 series release.
If ray tracing is doable,and can be used to great effect in games,even if the cards are expensive at least that is something more than a console can do.
You only need to see a game like ARK or even the company behind Star Citizen,treating PC owners like crap,and pushing dates further and further into the future. Then look at Crysis and see how it utterly owned even the "latest consoles".
All this means is the PC has a lot of potential being wasted by penny pinching devs,who then work wonders with Atom class CPUs and the equivalent of a RX470 or RX480.
Sure,people like me having a GTX1080 and a £400 qHD monitor makes us so not for PC gaming in general.
Criticism of PC gaming is not indicative of a hatred of PCs,but having some expectations,and expecting more and devs will only make better PC games,if gamers actually push them to.
It was the same blinkered,self centred people who attacked industry commenters on microtransactions saying they were needed since they were fans of the game companies more than being gamers,and see where that went. They even all went quiet once EA said they were not really needed.
If people have zero expectations,expect to get reheated console ports,or games strung along on some decade old engine,or more MOBAS,and Battle Royale games.
Edit!!
Also I am somewhat excited at the GTX1100/GTX2000 series release.
If ray tracing is doable,and can be used to great effect in games,even if the cards are expensive at least that is something more than a console can do.
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Caporegime
Well after reading this last page it would seem I'm in the wrong part of the forum, I thought this was the GPU section.
These threads always go off topic,primarily since there hasn't been a very recent rumour.
But as I linked a few pages back TAA now has a version which uses ray tracing:
https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/120656-nvidia-adds-ray-tracing-tech-temporal-anti-aliasing-taa/
That is a strong hint Nvidia is releasing more cards with ray tracing support.
At least that is something consoles cannot do!
If PC Games could be coded as efficiently as Consoles, the margin between them would be huge. Unfortunately, consoles have a very limited variation of hardware in comparison, so it's a lot easier to focus on efficiency.
As for GPUs - roll on August, new PC is gagging for a new GPU...
As for GPUs - roll on August, new PC is gagging for a new GPU...
Surely the rise of cdkey sites is a massive contributor.
Steam doesn’t offer the sales it used to, and there are a number of decent key sites that offer good prices.
Personally I think consoles have little to do with it.
Perhaps we’ll see a resurgence after the new cards launch.
Steam doesn’t offer the sales it used to, and there are a number of decent key sites that offer good prices.
Personally I think consoles have little to do with it.
Perhaps we’ll see a resurgence after the new cards launch.
Caporegime
It's more the case more and more games are ditching Steam for dedicated launchers and their own networks so less people need to use Steam now.
For example Fallout 76 is not available on pre-order on Steam and people think Bethesda will use its current launcher instead.
For example Fallout 76 is not available on pre-order on Steam and people think Bethesda will use its current launcher instead.
Soldato
From the "Leak" on videocardz twitter, the next gpu lineup is likely to have 6 SM's per GPC. Giving the following specs.
Gx102 = 4,608 - 6GPC ~ Titan V (but likely higher due to better scaling/drivers)
Gx104 = 3,072 - 4GPC ~ stock 1080Ti perf
Gx106 = 1,536 - 2GPC
Gx107 = 768 - 1 GPC
Gx102 = 4,608 - 6GPC ~ Titan V (but likely higher due to better scaling/drivers)
Gx104 = 3,072 - 4GPC ~ stock 1080Ti perf
Gx106 = 1,536 - 2GPC
Gx107 = 768 - 1 GPC