Geforce Titan rumours.

[Armageus]

Yes, we heard you the first fifteen times. No need for a sixteenth. It's priced at a point where they think they'll sell out and achieve maximum profits. That's generally how it works.

I'm confused why you expect them to sell it for say £600 and sell out when they could sell it for £850 and sell out.

I thought people here said it wasn't a limited product though - if that is the case, how will it "sell out" any time soon?

 

[Rusty0611]

I actually felt this being posted LtMatt. Either that or it was Rusty reading it and a small part of his fury was released for DARING to question the special one.

Eh?

I thought people here said it wasn't a limited product though - if that is the case, how will it "sell out" any time soon?

All voices I've heard say this will be a limited product. 8 pack said so and he is likely to know more about that than most of our guesses.

 

[tommybhoy]

The relevance was in the post, your not confused and you also know why Iv'e voiced my opinions rusty.

 

[V3teran]

Eh?



All voices I've heard say this will be a limited product. 8 pack said so and he is likely to know more about that than most of our guesses.

It wont be limited, Nvidia have said themselves, Id take there word other than 8 pack.

 

[Rusty0611]

The relevance was in the post, your not confused and you also know why Iv'e voiced my opinions rusty.

You're speaking out against the pricing ignoring the economics of it? And justifying it by saying you're not a fanboy because you did it against the 7970s too? That's got an implicit assumption that I think you're a fanboy. I don't.

 

[Rusty0611]

It wont be limited, Nvidia have said themselves, Id take there word other than 8 pack.

Did they? Where abouts?

 

[LtMatt]

Not sure. Perhaps but they've been cheaper than nVidia for a long time so I don't think it probably would have been me. I've pretty much found their pricing (except on release) to be reasonable ish. When the 680s came out they were overpriced for the performance they offered out the box but not by a massive amount. The problem was the 7950/7870 both of which were priced quite oddly. They soon settled down though.

Style... Of course, again, it's all relative as you don't just use furniture to sit on. Unless you and Mrs LtMatt are fond of stepping into your wardrobe?

You definitely rammed that point down out throats Rusty, i remember it well.

As for the furniture, no comment.

I actually felt this being posted LtMatt. Either that or it was Rusty reading it and a small part of his fury was released for DARING to question the special one.

@ Argos furniture, it might be more comfortable but when it collapses I'd say parts inside won't be so comfy .

Depends which part you land on. Some of those chair legs make mighty fine attachments according to Mrs LtMatt.

 

[Sin_Chase]

It wont be limited, Nvidia have said themselves, Id take there word other than 8 pack.

The question you have to consider is this though:

nVidia might not be limiting to a hard target number of X Thousand units. BUT - They might be limited by yield.

Much of a muchness really.

 

[Bluntwrapped]

I agree with more or less all the posts in the last couple of pages.

"Titan is very expensive" and "price per performance is a joke", seems to be the thoughts and also that you can buy 79797979790 CF for less money. In no way do I make these posts wrong.

Titan is the fastest single core GPU and well over priced but no other single core card can touch it. Mjones hit the nail on the head and said it is a hobby and most of us who are in the GPU/CPU/MOBO forums treat this like a hobby. I said a couple of days ago about a work mate who paid over a grand for his fishing pole. I said "how much????", it was only after thinking about it for abit, did I see that is his passion and fair play to him

If people can afford these things, why shouldn't they buy it? Always a cheaper alternative but this is down to the buyer to decide.

Sorry for waffling

Yep, I agree on investing time and money into making the most of your hobby. Saying that though Greg, your mates 1K fishing pole is an investment that'll last him the rest of his life. In 30 years time it's still a practical and functional fishing pole. Give it 6 months time and the Titan 2 will be the next hot topic and initial cost of the Titan will drop by a couple of hundred quid. As much as it's great to have the latest and greatest hardware, it's hard to justify paying all that hard earned cash on something that has certainty of rapid depreciation.

 

[Rusty0611]

You definitely rammed that point down out throats Rusty, i remember it well.

What for all of a couple of weeks before they dropped prices? I don't remember commenting much on it at the time but I would like to see some posts. I do remember debating the cost of the launch prices after they had been dropped and pointing out they were poor but that's "crying over spilt milk" territory so only has context of the price at the time as opposed to the prices after they dropped. My points were along the lines of paying £450 for day 1 7970 and having to wait numerous months for what you would call "decent" drivers.

"our throats" - I'm a 7950 CF owner!!

Although I don't subscribe to all this AMD RED TEAM SOCIALIST CAMARADERIE which occurs .

As for the furniture, no comment.

Depends which part you land on. Some of those chair legs make mighty fine attachments according to Mrs LtMatt.

The question you have to consider is this though:

nVidia might not be limiting to a hard target number of X Thousand units. BUT - They might be limited by yield.

Much of a muchness really.

Good point.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This is not good:

http://translate.googleusercontent....s.html&usg=ALkJrhhi5pY-c6w8e6ap63Aw6IryW5hrxw

Temperature can affect actual performance!!

Most review benches are open air and in air conditioned offices.

Hence they are cooler than most actual systems.

Now think of your case,especially after a few months of dust build-up?

Also,high end SFF PC systems are being sold with Geforce Titan in them.

What about during summer then??

I'm not sure what your point actually is with regards to SFFs...

Titan is reasonably small (for a high end card) and fits with a reasonable Thermal envelope - 690 Doesn't, 7990/Ares doesn't, and Crossfire/SLI of any other cards won't either. In which case Titan is the fastest solution for a SFF, outside of any other criteria.

Here are 2 examples with Anno 2070 and Battlefield 3 with a rapid test, test temperature stabilized and the same test but with the latter two 120mm fans positioned around the map:

Anno 2070: 75 fps -> 63 fps -> 68 fps
Battlefield 3: 115 fps -> 107 fps -> 114 fps

The drop in performance once the temperature reaches cruising can be considerable. Efficient cooling can partially compensate for this decline, but there not a contradiction in having to add noise to compensate for a graphics card is trying to remain discreet at all costs?

It also raises the issue of reliability of performance comparisons that you can read here and there, since this may be the big difference depending on the test conditions (ventilation card but wait or not temperature rise of the GPU for measurements) between extreme cases the gain is 19% in Anno 2070 and 7.5% in Battlefield 3!

The frequencies that we obtained in practice for two selected scenarios: limited to 889 MHz map without additional cooling / card capable of up to 1006 MHz with additional cooling. 3DMark is only able to maintain the highest frequencies through the loading time between scenes that allow the GPU never have time to reach 80 ° C.

3DMark Fire Strike: 889/1006 MHz
Unigne Heaven 4.0: 876/954 MHz
Unigne Valley 1.0: 876/954 MHz
1920 Alan Wake Max: 876/993 MHz
Alan Wake 2560 Very High: 837/928 MHz
2560 Alan Wake Max: 876/954 MHz
Anno 2070: 837/902 MHz
Assassin's Creed MSAA4x March 1920: 876/967 MHz
Assassin's Creed March 2560 FXAA HQ: 850/941 MHz
Assassin's Creed MSAA4x March 2560: 850/928 MHz
Batman Arkham City AA8x: 876/993 MHz
Batman Arkham City 2560 AA4x: 876/954 MHz
Battlefield March 1920 MSAA 4x: 876/993 MHz
Battlefield 3 2560: 850/928 MHz
Battlefield March 2560 MSAA 4x: 876/954 MHz
Civilization V AA8x 1920: 850/928 MHz
Civilization V AA4x 2560: 837/902 MHz
Civilization V AA8x 2560: 863/954 MHz
February 1920 Crysis Ultra: 876/993 MHz
February 2560 Crysis Extreme: 876/954 MHz
February 2560 Crysis Ultra: 863/967 MHz
DiRT Showdown 1920 Ultra: 876/954 MHz
DiRT Showdown 2560 Ultra AL OFF: 837/928 MHz
DiRT Showdown 2560 Ultra: 863/941 MHz
Far Cry AA4x March 1920: 876/954 MHz
Far Cry 3 2560: 850/928 MHz
Hitman Absolution: 876/993 MHz
Max Payne 3 4x AA: 876/954 MHz
Max Payne March 2560 NOAA: 850/941 MHz
Sleeping Dogs: 837/902 MHz
The Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition: 876/954 MHz
Total War Shogun MSAA4x February 1920: 837/928 MHz
Total War Shogun February 2560 MLAA: 837/928 MHz
Total War Shogun February 2560 MSAA 4x: 837/901 MHz

I have been building SFF systems since 2005,so yes thermal constraints are important.

Instead of making excuses,think and maybe you forget people tend to play games for hours too. Maybe in your world people only run games for 10 minutes.

Look at JC2 for example:

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Titan/f343d/JC.png

15% to 20% would push the card down to GTX680 level.

A well known French website did the test,and look,it boosts more than what Nvidia says. So those performance figures are dependent on good cooling. It also appears the card in throttling under Anno2070 on a test bench.

If performance drops a decent amount it comes into the same league as cheaper cards which won't throttle in a SFF PC. Hence the user can get the same performance from a cheaper card in a SFF PC like a GTX680.

Bigger cases like the Bitfenix Prodigy might be fine,but they are not really not that small TBH.

If you don't get into your head,thats your problem.

Complain to that website then,why they actually bothered to do some additional testing.

 

[V3teran]

Did they? Where abouts?

I read it on another forum few days ago and somebody within this thread also posted a source a couple days ago.

If you go back some pages you will probably find it.

Also Hilbert the owner of Guru3D said its very unlikely it will be limited, maybe for a month or two but after that depending on sales they should be easily acquired.

Prices should drop also.

 

[V3teran]

I have been building SFF systems since 2005,so yes thermal constraints are important.

Instead of making excuses,think and maybe you forget people tend to play games for hours too. Maybe in your world people only run games for 10 minutes.

Look at JC2 for example:

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Titan/f343d/JC.png

15% to 20% would push the card down to GTX680 level.

A well known French website did the test,and look,it boosts more than what Nvidia says. So those performance figures are dependent on good cooling. It also appears the card in throttling under Anno2070 on a test bench.

If performance drops a decent amount it comes into the same league as cheaper cards which won't throttle in a SFF PC. Hence the user can get the same performance from a cheaper card in a SFF PC.

If you don't get into your head,thats your problem.

Complain to that website then,why they actually bothered to do some additional testing.

Yeah thats just throttling down mate, 690 does that once it hits 70 degrees, Well its supposed to do but i dont notice the clocks dropping, They just stay at maximum boost which for me is 1071mhz and 1084mhz on both cores at stock with no OC.

When OC i get 1215 and 1202.

 

[Rusty0611]

I read it on another forum few days ago and somebody within this thread also posted a source a couple days ago.

If you go back some pages you will probably find it.

Also Hilbert the owner of Guru3D said its very unlikely it will be limited, maybe for a month or two but after that depending on sales they should be easily acquired.

Prices should drop also.

As above - yield could be limiting. We're all guessing really. Only nVidia know for sure although partners will have some information on availability.

The point is anyway - they're priced accordingly at a point where nVidia believe they'll have enough demand (i.e. sell out or at a level they're happy with) and achieve maximum profit.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yeah thats just throttling down mate, 690 does that once it hits 70 degrees, Well its supposed to do but i dont notice the clocks dropping, They just stay at maximum boost which for me is 1071mhz and 1084mhz on both cores at stock with no OC.

When OC i get 1215 and 1202.

This is why I think the GTX770 and GTX780 will be better fits for a SFF PC. I expect performance/watt to go up and Turbo to be more refined than before.

 

[V3teran]

As above - yield could be limiting. We're all guessing really. Only nVidia know for sure although partners will have some information on availability.

The point is anyway - they're priced accordingly at a point where nVidia believe they'll have enough demand (i.e. sell out or at a level they're happy with) and achieve maximum profit.

Nvidia have been stockpiling failed Tesla/GK110 for well over 1 year now, I reckon they have more than enough yields tbh.

 

[Armageus]

I have been building SFF systems since 2005,so yes thermal constraints are important.

I would think NVIDIA have been making Graphics cards for longer than that, that and they have an idea as to how to meet thermal guidelines for Rack and blade compute servers... but I'm sure you know more with regards to thermal engineering.

Instead of making excuses,think and maybe you forget people tend to play games for hours too. Maybe in your world people only run games for 10 minutes.
...snip...
A well known French website did the test,and look,it boosts more than what Nvidia says.

Do you not think that if there was a problem other sites would have picked up on, especially given the lengthy embargo and presumably rigid testing guidelines NVIDIA would likely have provided reviewers with.

Could be as simple as them not understanding the Boost settings, as I believe you can specify temperature or power constraint as the priority one to control throttling (Certainly looks like it in the MSI Afterburner version Guru3d showed).

Also not why it is necessary to post 2 identical comments in 2 different threads.

 

[Rusty0611]

Nvidia have been stockpiling failed Tesla/GK110 for well over 1 year now, I reckon they have more than enough yields tbh.

Maybe true/maybe not - but you're still guessing .

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

There is one area where Geforce Titan is not too badly priced - for rendering work. OK,the GTX580 3GB was comparatively cheaper,but the Geforce Titan is going to be great for such work!!

 

[B1gbeard]

Maybe true/maybe not - but you're still guessing .

In which case yields can't really be used as an excuse for the ridiculous pricing until things become clearer.