Poll: General election voting intentions poll

[D.P.]

"Worst" case scenario, they would all be subject to the same visa rules that non-EU use.
So that means a simple process for the already employed. A few months confusion for business owners, an easy application for those who have been there for many years, and some of the more recent migrants may have to return.

The majority would stay, and the majority of EU nationals living over here would stay too.
Its not about booting anyone out, its about controlling the number entering.

The already employed wont automatically get a visa, they wouldn't have a right to a visa like that. The country of residence would have to set up some special agreement for British citizens already living or working there. but why would they, If Britain restricts that counties nationals' free-movement to the UK then why would they not want to have an equal treatment?

And that completely ignores all the Brits that have retired abroad, what kind of visa do they get?

 

[D.P.]

If they're native brits then i don't see that as a problem

So you are OK with a large increase in unemployment?

 

[Delvis]

If they're native brits then i don't see that as a problem

Native Brit. Lol.

 

[D.P.]

How can you say that? Why couldn't they get an exemption if property owning with enough pension income to not be a burden on the state + health insurance, or something? I mean, for example, the Spanish state will find pensioners who can support themselves to be a positive, wouldn't they? Or the visa process could be ridiculously easy. The idea that most will be sent home is as stupid as UKIP are! Visas can be super easy to sort out - eg. tourist ones where you arrive in Turkey and pay €10 and carry on your way. Or the negligible administrative burden which faced my friend and his girlfriend when they moved out to SE Asia to teach in a school last year.

It's equally retarded when people say things along the lines of how cracking down on immigration would kill the NHS because we need loads of doctors and nurses. Well, no, because they're the sort of people who'd easily be able to get visas.

Not that I'm a UKIP fan... but the critique of their position can often be embarrassingly bad.

There are currently no visas and rules in place to let a non EU British person be a resident in an EU country. Britain leaves the EU and their current rights are instantly revoked!

If you are going to claim that the Eu countries will dish out Visa's willy nilly then would Britain do the same, if so what would be the purpose of the so called immigration controls? If Britain restricts visas to EU citizens then why would the other countries issues visas to British citizens?

If there is free move movement of EU citizens because they can pay for a €10 visa then the migration control is exactly what we have now, minus €10.

UKIP's goal is to restrict free-movement and impose visa restictions, you can be assured that other countries ill offer the same reqirements or worse for British citizens.

 

[Delvis]

There are currently no visas and rules in place to let a non EU British person be a resident in an EU country. Britain leaves the EU and their current rights are instantly revoked!

If you are going to claim that the Eu countries will dish out Visa's willy nilly then would Britain do the same, if so what would be the purpose of the so called immigration controls? If Britain restricts visas to EU citizens then why would the other countries issues visas to British citizens?

If there is free move movement of EU citizens because they can pay for a €10 visa then the migration control is exactly what we have now, minus €10.

UKIP's goal is to restrict free-movement and impose visa restictions, you can be assured that other countries ill offer the same reqirements or worse for British citizens.

I am assuming it would be a case of 'have lived in country x for y years'.

 

[Judgeneo]

The already employed wont automatically get a visa, they wouldn't have a right to a visa like that. The country of residence would have to set up some special agreement for British citizens already living or working there. but why would they, If Britain restricts that counties nationals' free-movement to the UK then why would they not want to have an equal treatment?

And that completely ignores all the Brits that have retired abroad, what kind of visa do they get?

Those working apply for working visas. They already have employment records in the country, making it a simple application

Those retired would apply for a retirement visa. Which is already a thing. Some of the poorest pensioners may not qualify, but I don't expect that number to be very high as those people are the most likely to retire at home.

Obviously there would have to be some sort of transition period, which would be in the interests of the UK and rEU as there would be a number of things to hammer out besides immigration.

 

[Narj]

Officially "floating voter" now. Just can't get over the irritation of how the Conservatives are dealing with some local issues so I think I'd struggle to vote for them despite traditionally voting blue.

 

[platypus]

So you are OK with a large increase in unemployment?

Then they'll have something else to blame on the government .

 

[Tefal]

There are currently no visas and rules in place to let a non EU British person be a resident in an EU country. Britain leaves the EU and their current rights are instantly revoked!


.

Because you're expecting the with drawl to be a surprise announcement rather than the result of years long negotiation where all these issues are sorted prior to the situation changing?

 

[Adam-r]

I voted Lib Dem, not because I want them in, but because they have more chance of taking the seat off labour where I live. That's my main aim, keeping Milliband and the SNP out of Downing St.

Have the think tactics this time around

 

[Tefal]

I quote like the lib-cons arrangement tbh.

Shame we can't vote for that.

 

[Narj]

I quote like the lib-cons arrangement tbh.

Shame we can't vote for that.

+1

 

[platypus]

Because you're expecting the with drawl to be a surprise announcement rather than the result of years long negotiation where all these issues are sorted prior to the situation changing?

I am assuming it would be a case of 'have lived in country x for y years'.

Quite. It's far more likely that a UK exit would take several years, so there will be plenty of time to deal with expats.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

No, I saw the full clip this morning on the BBC when it was ~breaking news~ and it still makes the situation look farcical. The point is that this morning Labour were claiming that it would increase tax revenues and wouldn't cost the UK money... then a video is found which has Balls saying it would cost the UK money . That's an own goal.

Ball's non-com statement and subsequent flip-flop are providing great entertainment today with even the Bolshevik Broadcasting Company joining in giving labour a hard time over this.

Now with YT clip of car-crash interview..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=14&v=0A1KjRPBvnU

 

[D.P.]

Because you're expecting the with drawl to be a surprise announcement rather than the result of years long negotiation where all these issues are sorted prior to the situation changing?

No, my main point followed. If an EU citizen can't get a Visa in the UK easily then why will Brits get visas for other EU countries easily? Visas are setup approximately symmetrically with bi-lateral agreements.


If it is extremely easy for a Brit to get an EU visa then it implies it would be extremely easy for an EU citizen to get a British visa. All the immigration control has done then is add a load of red-tape and put money into the hands of lawyers and pen-pushers, is that really advantageous?


What ever control Britain would put on EU workers we can expect similar controls on us as a fair and equitable treatment.
Other Eu countries have already warned the UK about this, and this had come to light over the benefits fiasco as well

 

[D.P.]

I am assuming it would be a case of 'have lived in country x for y years'.

Possibly, but what about the hundreds of thousands of Brits that move to other EU countries each year for work. Now they would have to go through some visa process and deal with a load of red-tape and suffer a load of exclusions.

 

[D.P.]

There will be a lot of time for arrangements to be made. We're not going to leave the morning after a referendum! Did I say they'll dish them out willy nilly? No. But pensioners who are home owning and have enough money to support themselves will be desirable, no? Would a friend with a first in English who's been teaching out there for years be kicked out? Well probably not, because his skills are important and he's desirable for them - he might have to pay for a visa, but that's not a big deal. If they're net contributors, why would they kick them out just to get one back for kicking out their nationals form the UK?!

You ask, 'If Britain restricts visas to EU citizens then why would the other countries issues visas to British citizens? ' the answer is they'll issue visas to people who are beneficial to their country, because doing things which are beneficial to their country is more important than an eye for an eye approach .

Some people might not be able to get visas, but so what? Does that in isolation mean the idea's wrong? Why?

Based on what you have said then we need to be increasing immigration to the UK because immigrants are net contributors, especially when from the EU.

 

[Judgeneo]

No, my main point followed. If EU citizen can't get Visas int the UK easily then why will Brits get visas for other EU countries easily? Vissas are setup approximately symmetrically with bi-lateral agreements.


If it is extremely easy for a Brit to get an EU visa then it implies it would be extremely easy for an EU citizen to get a British visa. All the immigration control has done then is add a load of red-tape and put money into the hands of lawyers and pen-pushers, is that really advantageous?

There is a significant difference between those already in the country, and those wanting to get in.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Wait what?!

Isn't the New Labour shift to the centre ground the classic example of that?! You say they moved from their centre ground, but in this context it'd be better to say moving from the left, and their core vote, towards the centre ground, no?

Okay, I'll wait for you.

I explicitly said New Labour broke from traditional Labour centre ground. My comments were therefore relating to the internal politics of the Labour party, rather than national politics. My comments regarding Thatcher related to national politics.

However, New Labour did not move to the centre, because as I said, the centre is not constant, as social and political values are not constant. If traditional Labour was say -10 and the Conservatives were 10, then the centre ground is somewhere around 0. When New labour redefined itself as say -1, the centre ground shifted, reflecting the changing aspirations and values of British people.

Then David Cameron came along and moved the Tories towards say 4 or 5, making that the centre ground even narrower and it became harder to distinguish between the two. Trying to move further to the centre is almost impossible now, its why our politics has been reduced to splitting hairs over figures rather than debating big talking points.

The fact so many people are disaffected by our politics tends to suggest that actually, the existing view of what is "centre ground" is incorrect and there are many people outside of it which could be captured by moving AWAY from it. This explains why UKIP and the SNP/GRN have stolen some of the vote share.

 

[robgmun]

Something I have been pointing out for the last couple of months, the UKIP voter share is sliding steadily downwards. Of the the UKIPpers like robgum deny any such trend in their own little dream world.

UKIP vote share has dropped 25% on the last 6 months, and that shows with the expected seats have dropped from around 5 to around 3, and even then there is only really 1 certain UKIP seat (Clacton), Rochester and Strood could easily turn in to a conservative seat.

Yesterday's Populus's poll : LAB 33%, CON 31%, UKIP 15%, LDEM 10%, GRN 4%...... And UKIP at 14% in yesterday's YouGov poll, up from 12% in a week, a rise of 17%......Also, the recent Survation poll had UKIP at 18%

You're just as guilty as i am of picking and choosing polls. You jump on any low ones to make a point, when in general they haven't been sliding at all since the new year, they have been consistently 15% overall and Survation has consistently have had them at 18%