German Grand Prix 2013, Nürburgring - Race 9/19

andicole0 said:
Interesting I'm not the only one peeved that MW got some points, good guy Ted.

Andi.
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I'm peeved the team got the points, it wasn't his decision to take away the jack and wave him off(effectively), Webber did precisely nothing wrong, but ultimately its very unfair that as a team they get points, and effectively rewarded for making a life threateningly bad mistake in the pits.

The fact that the points he got will be worth WAY more than the freaking ridiculous fine they got just rubs salt in the wound.

As for Webber bearing the brunt of bad luck at Red Bull, it really isn't surprising. He's the slower driver which means even cruising around in a 1-2 as they so often did, his car will invariably be running behind Vettel for the majority of the race. I would be surprised if Webbers car hasn't basically run hotter and harder by a pretty noticeable gap in the majority of races against Vettel. hotter car being pushed harder constantly trying to overtake cars, going off line to overtake.

Cruising out front(no matter the car) is easier on the tyres and car than stuck up someones exhaust. His qualifying is sketchy as well, he's capable of very very good laps in qualifying but inconsistent I'd say he can only get close to Vettel in qualifying say in 7-8 races a year, and I don't think Webber at his absolute best can beat Vettel at his best in qualifying so even when he does well its not always going to beat Vettel. He also gets into far far more tangles because he both under qualifies, starts poorly and has a car that has better race pace than any other car over the past 4 years.

I think its nothing more than that, Webber is the worse driver and as such pushes his car harder for longer in almost every race.. more failures should be nothing less than expected.
 
spirits247 said:
Whilst you are right, I didn't read anyone suggesting that?

People are just suggesting that Webbers stop was engineered to take a little longer than Sebs, otherwise he had the undercut and would take the lead causing a difficult situation again for Redbulls drivers championship - but it went horribly wrong with Webber driving off too early..
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Webber didn't drive off too early, the RBR traffic light system indicated he should go (as Horner mentioned after the race)


I feel for Mark, as he did nothing wrong - but I do think his car should have been black flagged for an unsafe release.


edit - wondering if Merc will be pressurising the FIA to lift the ban on swapping the rear tyres over. I know its a different construction for this race, and by the sound of it will be again for Hungary - but in race trim they are well back in the pack (even considering Rosberg's bad quali, he didn't shoot forward in the race like he should have)
 
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Driver only went when he was told to, but Red Bull should have got 0 constructor points from this race.

Almost killing someone with a loose wheel (imagine if it had bounced slightly and hit the guy in the head!) and they get a ridiculous fine that is effectively back pocket change to a top corporate team.
 
TurnipHead said:
Just been reading through this thread. Not sure why everyone gave you a hard time for this comment. It was hilarious. I had to rewind it several times. :D Shame we didn't get to see a replay from his perspective.
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What I'd like to post to this comment would be classed as a personal attack, and probably get me suspended.

I wonder how funny you'd find a broken collarbone and cracked ribs, and at the same time being inches away from (probably) being dead.
 
Given the safety conscious nature - shouldn't there be a ban on cars going the wrong way down the pitlane (even if being pushed).

I understand f1 cars don't have reverse (well to be exact, its rarely if ever used), and therefore they pushed backwards into the garage by mechanics - but Im talking about several garage lengths here not a few metres in a semi -circle.
 
Guerrilla said:
Hopefully they will revisit that particular rule.
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They have already, twice. This stupid 'wait for lapped cars to unlap' rule was introduced a few years back, but it caused big hold ups. So they dropped it, and then we had lapped cars causing issues after restarts, so they brought it back again. We lost 4 or 5 laps of racing due to the rule yesterday, and Webber was granted a free lap on the field.

How about this: All lapped cars should drop to the back of the queue, but remain in race order, and no laps added? That can happen quickly, and nobody gains an advantage.
 
FrankJH said:
Given the safety conscious nature - shouldn't there be a ban on cars going the wrong way down the pitlane (even if being pushed).

I understand f1 cars don't have reverse (well to be exact, its rarely if ever used), and therefore they pushed backwards into the garage by mechanics - but Im talking about several garage lengths here not a few metres in a semi -circle.
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What would the other option be? Leave a 3 wheeled car stranded in the fast lane of the pitlane?
 
Westyfield2 said:
What's with all the after the race investigations though? :confused:
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The stewards seem to have got into a trend of wanting to speak to the team and the drivers before giving out a penalty, and obviously this cannot happen during the race.

At least they have only handed out fines. If it had been retrospective drive through or grid penalties it would have been retarded. That said, its still utterly bizarrely inconsistent with other unsafe release penalties. You would think that there would be a standard unsafe release penalty by now?
 
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8687/fia.html said:
40.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" is shown on the timing monitors, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car. This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.
Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable.
If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be shown on the timing monitors.
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Short version is under the previous set of rules where they maintained track position the lapped cars were getting in the way of the front runners at the restart. So they either had to penalised them and send them to the back of the pack whilst already being a lap down, or let them unlap themselves and form up at the rear.

Webber is the exception to the rule really, it was designed for HRTs and similar tail end teams.
 
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MooMoo444 said:
Seems like that would be most sensible. You don't lose 10% of the race that way.
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What would be more sensible would be not deploying the Safety Car at the slightest opportunity. Using double waved yellows and severely penalising drivers who don't slow down should be enough. It started off as a proper safety car, and it's crept more and more towards an Indianapolis style pace car.

I was surprised when they didn't deploy it for Massa yesterday.
 
Watched the race last night and just failed to get excited by it.

I've been watching F1 since about 1987 and I really think I'm not going to bother anymore.

The whole result came down to if Kimi could get close enough to Vettel to use his magic button.

I want to see drivers winning not rules, strategy and 'overtaking aids'.

The fact that not all the races are free-to-view means that the season 'story' gets lost.

All a bit of a shame....
 
Hodders said:
Watched the race last night and just failed to get excited by it.

I've been watching F1 since about 1987 and I really think I'm not going to bother anymore.

The whole result came down to if Kimi could get close enough to Vettel to use his magic button.
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That's a vast simplification. Kimi was catching Vettel, the DRS counter-acts the loss of downforce from running in the wake of the car in front.

They also had a magic button in '87. It was labelled Turbo Boost.

I want to see drivers winning not rules, strategy and 'overtaking aids'.
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In which case I'll recommend the GP3 support races. Identical cars and processional races without much overtaking.

The fact that not all the races are free-to-view means that the season 'story' gets lost.

All a bit of a shame....
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All the races are on the BBC that day, just not all live broadcasts.
 
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