German Grand Prix 2013, Nürburgring - Race 9/19
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Soldato
It's the same as with most message boards, people are more likely to negative post than say "I've never seen an F1 race before, that was thrilling. I'll watch more from now on".
Same as the hardware sections here. Someone posts up asking for advice, immediately posts pop up saying don't buy anything from <insert manufacturer here>, I'm never buying one of their hard drives/motherboards/graphics cards again after the last one failed.
As long as the TV audiences go up Bernie/the FIA/the teams and sponsors are all happy.
I'm not reading too much into it. If one the regulars like Duke, Flibster or yourself did then I might think twice about it.
Same as the hardware sections here. Someone posts up asking for advice, immediately posts pop up saying don't buy anything from <insert manufacturer here>, I'm never buying one of their hard drives/motherboards/graphics cards again after the last one failed.
As long as the TV audiences go up Bernie/the FIA/the teams and sponsors are all happy.
I'm not reading too much into it. If one the regulars like Duke, Flibster or yourself did then I might think twice about it.
Soldato
Wasn't Webber pretty much already at the back though?
But BOTH drivers could use the boost button at that point in F1. Now it's only the one behind, which tends to make it a bit easier.
Next year, if they don't decide to change all the rules at the last moment again, it should add a bit more difficulty to performing overtakes. Especially with the fuel limit and the ability to use more stored energy than they can store in a single lap.
Soldato
Well my uncle(older then me) was been following JB since day one and has told me he won't be supporting F1
till they do something about the tires. As he says they are racing drivers not tire minders
and yes they have always had to do this but not to this extreme.
I can see what's he is saying i.e JB had a 5 second lead with two laps to go now in the Bridgestone days that was enough now not so.
webber was at the back before the yellow car and was at the back when it came in.
Soldato
As regards track position - I can't recall to be honest. He was on the timesheets but only because he lost time being pushed back up the pitlane after the botched stop. Reversing in the pitlane is a black flag offense (Mansell - Estoril '89).
OK, you got me there.
The defending driver can use KERS to counter DRS, but then again so can the attacking driver.
Man of Honour
Well he would have been more dangerous to other drivers trying to complete the lap on three wheels, and stopping at the end of the pitlane and leaving it would have been a blockage too, so I think they just accepted the lesser evil here.
Soldato
Personally i cant justify not watching a sport iv followed for numerous years just because of the tyres. Its the only sport i watch and will continue too. Why miss seasons just because you dont like the tyres or DRS etc. This shocks me.
Soldato
Yes Webber was at the back but also a lap down, which he recovered under the safety car and went to to get points, something I don't think he would have done from a lap down.
Andi.
Maybe F1 could use Code 60, or similar? It would be easy to enforce with the standard ECU.
Removes the fun of a restart though.
Webber was 1 lap and 67 seconds behind the lead when the SC came out. Without the SC he wouldn't have got anywhere near the points.
Last edited:
Man of Honour
SC isn't associated with safety anymore. It's just a chance at some free points you otherwise wouldn't have gotten, due to the 'free' pit stop etc. I wish they'd somehow stop that.
Soldato
I don't understand why people aren't tuning in just because of the tyres. I'll hazard a guess that most of these people are Hamilton fan boys so I can understand their frustration that the W04 gobbles Lewis' rear tyres up but to boycott viewing F1 races because of some rubber is ridiculous.
Mercedes' car has been eating it's tyres for the last three seasons, there is something inherently and fundamentally wrong with the way the car has been designed that cannot be changed until next year. The chassis has been designed in such a way that there will always be problems with the tyres. This is perhaps further compounded by the brakes Lewis has had Merc fit for him which overheat under his late braking style and transfer that heat to the rear rubber which is probably why Nico's tyres don't appear to degrade as quickly - how many times do we hear Nico complaining about tyre wear compared to Lewis?
The proper 2012 construction being introduced at Hungary will only compound further Mercedes' woes.
The fly aways races at the end of the season will exacerbate the problems with the tyres, especially tracks like Singapore where they will probably melt altogether
But this is something which other teams have managed to take into account with their car set ups when the structures and compound information was first open to the teams. Lotus got on top of it the best out of any of the teams with Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren, and Force India etc. doing well to adapt their cars around the tyres as well.
Mercedes' car has been eating it's tyres for the last three seasons, there is something inherently and fundamentally wrong with the way the car has been designed that cannot be changed until next year. The chassis has been designed in such a way that there will always be problems with the tyres. This is perhaps further compounded by the brakes Lewis has had Merc fit for him which overheat under his late braking style and transfer that heat to the rear rubber which is probably why Nico's tyres don't appear to degrade as quickly - how many times do we hear Nico complaining about tyre wear compared to Lewis?
The proper 2012 construction being introduced at Hungary will only compound further Mercedes' woes.
The fly aways races at the end of the season will exacerbate the problems with the tyres, especially tracks like Singapore where they will probably melt altogether
But this is something which other teams have managed to take into account with their car set ups when the structures and compound information was first open to the teams. Lotus got on top of it the best out of any of the teams with Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren, and Force India etc. doing well to adapt their cars around the tyres as well.
So it was nothing to do with a freewheeling car on the track?
It's still about safety.
you can still steer to the side / end of the pitlane where a tractor could move the car completely off the "circuit"
Given the amount of cars that have driven full laps / good % of a lap on three wheels previously (albeit slowly) - I think your "stranded" comment is a bit ridiculous to be fair
So your suggesting a rule be written that says drivers should drive their car to the end of the pitlane no matter what?
What if it was on fire? What if neither rear wheel was on? What if the wheel was on loosely and he noticed, but carried on driving at 100kmh because the rules say so, and then it flies off at the end of the pitlane and kills a marshal? What if he ran over a mechanic and they were pinned under the front wing being dragged along? What if he caught some of the next pit garages equipment on his rear wing and rips half the pitlane apart as he carries on down the pitlane.
Now that would be ridiculous. Much more sensible to tell drivers to stop as soon as they spot an issue, and allow them to be wheeled back to their pit bay.
What if it was on fire? What if neither rear wheel was on? What if the wheel was on loosely and he noticed, but carried on driving at 100kmh because the rules say so, and then it flies off at the end of the pitlane and kills a marshal? What if he ran over a mechanic and they were pinned under the front wing being dragged along? What if he caught some of the next pit garages equipment on his rear wing and rips half the pitlane apart as he carries on down the pitlane.
Now that would be ridiculous. Much more sensible to tell drivers to stop as soon as they spot an issue, and allow them to be wheeled back to their pit bay.
ill tune in as long as i can still get it, but i will probably stop when i can only see them on sky.. all on sky go isnt really that much of an appeal
its not the tires for me, its just the whole thing. the changing of the rules to almost spice up the championship, penalties that just dont seem to make sense
i also dont think lapped cars should be allowed to overtake. if you have lost those positions thats life,
also dont know why the early releases should just affect the team? without the team the driver couldnt race!
Ill certainly give next year a chance however. I think KERS should be far more powerful and remove DRS, its much more technical
In favour of a budget cap too. might reduce the number of paid drivers like that POS max chilton
its not the tires for me, its just the whole thing. the changing of the rules to almost spice up the championship, penalties that just dont seem to make sense
i also dont think lapped cars should be allowed to overtake. if you have lost those positions thats life,
also dont know why the early releases should just affect the team? without the team the driver couldnt race!
Ill certainly give next year a chance however. I think KERS should be far more powerful and remove DRS, its much more technical
In favour of a budget cap too. might reduce the number of paid drivers like that POS max chilton
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Well firstly we hear more of all English drivers than their team mates and always have, because its an English audience, second we hear people at the front or actually doing something more often than those at the back. How often do we hear interviews with Marussia drivers or most of the last 10-12 from a race, fact is they aren't doing anything so there isn't much to say. If its a top car that has finished at the back due to an eventful race that is different.
As for Rosberg not eating his tyres as badly, laughable, Hamilton had one race doing an extra stop and dropping further back, Rosberg did the same a few races later and yes, was complaining about tyres. His car eats the tyres precisely as much as Hamiltons, as Buttons Mclaren did compared to Hamilton. Different points in races, different places different fights and different circumstances mean different tyre wear conditions, thats all.
Again Hamilton following Schumi for 15 laps ruined his tyres and Button cruising along doing nothing came up to them when both their tyres were gone and went past without issue. Precisely as Hamilton did to Button yesterday(for tyre age issues not because of Button following), the ease of overtaking on different tyre wear is zero indication about driver quality.
Rosberg had "less" tyre issues yesterday because frankly, he wasn't following anyone closely, he wasn't in a significant points scoring position at any point and wasn't pushing hard to stay up with faster cars or defending hard. The races Rosberg HAS been in that situation Hamilton had better tyre wear, its got nothing to do with the driver, its purely about that particular race and how it happens to play out.
Rosberg started 11th and finished with almost nothing, Hamilton started 1st and ended up with very very little.... is it that hard to use reason to understand why Hamilton would be more disappointed?
The 2012 compound won't make any difference, Merc has been as terrible in several races as they were last year, though starting from further forward means they go less far backwards. Some races Merc were very competitive last year, others they weren't, this season is no different to last season. If Merc have 20% higher temps and tyre wear, that will be basically true on ANY tyre.
It was clear from months ago there would be Barcelona type races and Monaco type races, some will hurt Merc worse than other cars, others will favour qualifying on pole and being better tyre wear or very hard to overtake tracks, that was true day one of the season and when its over. The only thing is with every race the reaction from fans is absurd. If Merc had a good race suddenly everyone says their tyre issues are gone and are competitive, one bad race and its the exact reverse, its terrible and Merc are failures.
There will be more good and bad races for Merc but the car has issues that won't likely be fixed this year. The car has drastically improved in overall pace so they are qualifying miles better than last year, the tyre wear is a little better, but not much.
Soldato
Missed my post by a mile. Now waits while he thinks up something.
Oh and your normal start off a post with (insert here) then goes on to merc bashing. All over the £10 he lost...oh dear
Last edited: