German Grand Prix 2014, Hockenheim - Race 10/19

Yeah I don't see him changing.
If there was an rbr or merc seat that would be different

I really don't see McLaren doing well next year. They haven't this year really.
Of course they could but if I was to place a bet I'd say status quo
 
I'm with deuse, all smr ribbing aside, what McLaren need is a top driver to grab the team by the balls and drag them back up the front. That will be the single biggest improvement they can make. Button just isn't that guy, and I'm not convinced Boulier is either. But I'm pretty sure that someone like Alonso would be a massive boost for McLaren.

Unfortunately, Ron's return must surely put massive doubts over that ever happening.

In reality... Alonso will be at Ferrari next year, the car will be OK but not brilliant, and we will be having this same conversation.

I would love it if KM was dropped, Jenson retained, Alonso signs and Jenson beat Alonso next year in equal machinery. This forum would need it's own psych ward :p
 

Interesting read, liked this part especially

"Jenson Button might stay at McLaren alongside Alonso, creating a nice super team for Honda. That would move the spotlight to Sebastian Vettel, who is not having an enjoyable time at Red Bull. The Milton Keynes team has a conveyor belt of talent in waiting with Daniil Kvyat ready to jump up if required and Carlos Sainz Jr ready to leap into Toro Rosso." That'd be :cool:
 
I would love it if KM was dropped, Jenson retained, Alonso signs and Jenson beat Alonso next year in equal machinery. This forum would need it's own psych ward :p

Are you high? I'm a big Button fan, but if you think he could come close to Alonso in equal machinery you are very much mistaken. When was the last time you saw Button in a multi lap battle with somebody and come out on top like Alonso does week after week. When was the last time Alonso persistenly moaned about balance and had a lacklustre race finishing lower than where he started?

Also with regard to Mclaren (also a huge Mclaren fan) it will take several years yet for the team to realise any of those benefits, not the work of a moment to turn around a struggling team a la Mercedes.
 
If you have double-waved yellows you're meant to be prepared to stop (unless you're Hakkinen, where a wave suffices, apparently).

I expected a safety car, but it shouldn't have been needed. If other feel a safety car was needed then sadly that reflects more on the drivers attitudes than the race director. Safety must come first, but that itself shouldn't need a push of the big red button in this instance.
 
Are you high? I'm a big Button fan, but if you think he could come close to Alonso in equal machinery you are very much mistaken. When was the last time you saw Button in a multi lap battle with somebody and come out on top like Alonso does week after week. When was the last time Alonso persistenly moaned about balance and had a lacklustre race finishing lower than where he started?

Also with regard to Mclaren (also a huge Mclaren fan) it will take several years yet for the team to realise any of those benefits, not the work of a moment to turn around a struggling team a la Mercedes.

I apologise if you couldn't read the tone and humour of my post :)

Besides, the funny thing about what you just wrote is that that was the exact thing thousands of Hamilton fans and pundits said when Jenson signed for Mclaren, that he'd get ripped apart by Lewis, mullered, destroyed, swept aside. I remember Hamilton fans saying this very vividly, yet that wasn't how things happened ;)

... But then I guess if you say Button wouldn't "come close" to Alonso in equal machinery, then by the same token that Button did have a close battle with Lewis means that you're saying Lewis wouldn't come close to Alonso in equal machinery anymore?.......
 
Another F1 thead, another smr "yeah but if you take the total over all 3 seasons then Jensen beat Lewis" excuse...

Its almost as bad as when arknor used to pick all the races where Schumacher beat Rosberg and then say "if you only look at those races, Schumacher beat Rosberg".

:rolleyes:
 
I'm not talking about points Skeeter, I'm talking about the fact that whether you like it or not, Jenson didn't get "owned" by Hamilton like many people had predicted.

I'm not foolish enough to say that Jenson WOULD beat Alonso, but I also wouldn't be foolish enough to say that he'd be getting embarrassed like Kimi is by Alonso.

I will say out of all the drivers on the grid Alonso is probably thee best imo, and he's better than anyone at dragging a bad car around.

Jenson's defecit is that when he hasn't got a car setup to his liking it does affect him, like we're seeing with Kimi this season (which interestingly I've never seen before with Kimi)... but by the same token, if Jenson DOES get a car setup right for him and he hits that groove/sweet spot with it then he's pretty much untouchable.

Who knows, next season, if Jenson is still at Mclaren, that sweet spot car could be at his finger tips, and people bang on about him being old but didn't Webber come terrificly close to winning the WDC in 2010 aged 34 or something?
 
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I think Kimi's problem is Kimi, he doesn't enjoy it when he can't fight for wins and he's had enough... Didn't he say he will likely retire from F1 after his contract is up with Ferrari? That's not exactly the hungry, fighting mindset of someone to go out and drag a car round even when you know you're unlikely to win.
Alonso is still hungry for it.

A lot of people's comments are to get a ruse out of you smr and you bite pretty much every time, so they keep doing it... Jenson is a solid driver I don't really think anyone would deny that, but he is getting on, and he isn't getting any quicker... and like you say he doesn't have that ability to drag an imperfect car around, which is exactly what McLaren have.

It'd be interesting to see where other drivers would be if they were in the Merc of this year or one of the RBs from seasons past, I'm not sure there are many drivers on the grid who wouldn't be up there fighting for races or championships.
 
Massa having a bit of a cry about how nothings ever his fault...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115077

Cracking photo though!

While they were equally at fault, or equally innocent, I think it's fair to say a more experienced driver who'd raced Hockenheim more wouldn't have put his car in the position Magnussen did. You can't lunge up the inside there due to the way the track pinches in on itself - you'd have to be level with the driver on the outside to have a fair shot at going through. While Magnussen didn't lunge, he was just sat on the apex - he should have just slotted in behind Bottas.
 
While they were equally at fault, or equally innocent, I think it's fair to say a more experienced driver who'd raced Hockenheim more wouldn't have put his car in the position Magnussen did. You can't lunge up the inside there due to the way the track pinches in on itself - you'd have to be level with the driver on the outside to have a fair shot at going through. While Magnussen didn't lunge, he was just sat on the apex - he should have just slotted in behind Bottas.

It was completely and utterly Massa's fault.

Massa was unwilling to accept the idea someone might be on the inside line, he started on the outside, you can't just turn in when someone else is going to be there. He positioned himself wide and for the start of the race at the very least you HAVE to assume someone is going to be on the inside.

Massa simply never does this, he has a now very long history of simply turning in because he thinks it's okay to, even when he's turning right into the path of another car.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28391518

watch this video, at 12 seconds in Magnussen's front wheels are IN LINE with Massa's front wheel. Massa is on the outside but has decided to go across the apex even though he was on the outside going into the corner. Magnussen DID brake, and hard, which is why the contact is a little further back on Massa's car, he turned across him completely even though they were alongside each other.

At 13-14 seconds in you see Ricciardo(I think) on the outside of Vettel(I presume) and the line he takes is the sensible "outside" line. The two cars went in alongside each other through the corner. Ricciardo both having a car on the inside and starting on the outside made no attempt to take an overly tight line into the corner. Massa's absurd attempt to cut the corner tight at the start of the race when there is every reason to believe there would be another car there. It's insane, not least because the guy on the inside because he can't take the usual line, which would be flooring it and moving to the outside, has to go slower and turn further before putting his foot down so the outside will get power on first and harder and have the better exit from the corner. Massa is 100% at fault for that crash. I think if you watch 3 separate pairs of cars go through that corner alongside each other only Massa attempted such a tight turn from that wide out.

He's either incompetent or he purposefully drives in to people assuming they'll back out which is incredibly reckless and nasty driving, well the other option is he just wanted to smack him off but I don't believe that.

He has zero positional awareness. Go back to the crash in to Kimi. The car ahead of Massa that had less time to react managed to go around the left side of Kimi, with Kimi moving in his direction and with all the grip of being off track, made it around without being hit. If Massa simply moved to the right side of the track he would have finished that race(or more likely smashed into someone else further into the race), the only reason he hit Kimi is because he randomly smashed on the brakes and lost the rear end of the car.

I can't even explain how a supposedly top driver decides to lock his brakes while trying to drive around another car. The fact is there was a crapload of space for him to avoid Kimi completely and only driver error caused him to hit Kimi, entirely avoidable on his part and he screwed it up.

Massa is fast becoming this years Maldonado/Grosjean, hitting anyone and everything with insane driving.

That he has "called for cooler heads on young drivers" is absurd. As some of the rookies have done some of the best driving this year and Massa has made the most mistakes.
 
That's an astonishing lack of awareness from Massa. The accident was entirely his fault and, frankly, he should have been penalised for it. You cannot take an outside line on the first corner and expect to swing back to an inside line; there's simply too many cars about. You'll note how every other pairing going through the corner after him managed not to collide.
 
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