Poll: Gordon Brown - yeh or ney

[afraser2k]

And that, in anutshell, is the problem. You'd rather vote for some non-entity from X-factor than someone with a coherent policy platform.

Well that explains how Blair got in, especially with all the celeb support he had in his first election.

 

[dirtydog]

no, you're not allowed to say it because neither of the girls i mentioned happen to be gifted with the power of prophecy.
had they been bestowed with said power they would've no doubt foreseen both of their partners decide to leave them.
hindsight is always 20/20....something i'd expect someone of your intellect to already know.

Fine but I would prefer a system more like they have in the United States, where single parents HAVE to work and staying at home while being handed a better standard of living than millions who work full time is not an option.

the rest of the above debates other elements of the benfit system, which i neither agree with or mentioned in the first place.going back to my actual argument, while i'm aware of the media stories RE tax credits i have to call things as i see them and the examples i personally know of all are extremely grateful for the system being in place.

Just because they may be grateful doesn't mean the benefits are justified or desirable from the taxpayer's point of view

now to your point.
the benefit system has been abused for decades and i don't see a marked increase in its abuse between the end of the tories last term and now.

You might be right, but could you explain to me why the numbers of sickness benefit claimants has skyrocketed under Labour?

 

[Zip]

some of us are more interested in history that others.
the Oz soldiers are far from forgotten.

History?

We are in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, We have about 2000-4000 troops over there.
The only difference is we haven't only had 2 people in Iraq and neither were from Combat, so the Troops over there dont get mentioned as much

 

[Sleepy]

Has it ever been anyone else? I ask this as a genuine question.

The first labour governemnt was elected in 1929. before that there were the whigs and tories. There have also been coalition governements during war, and in the 70's the lib lab pact kept Callaghan in power.

I've never voted, I can't be bothered.

If there was a celeb to vote for, I might be persuaded.

Why am I not surprised by this post.

 

[The_Dark_Side]

History?

We are in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, We have about 2000-4000 troops over there.
The only difference is we haven't only had 2 people in Iraq and neither were from Combat, so the Troops over there dont get mentioned as much

sorry but while i'm aware of the work they're doing out there i assumed when you mentioned the alliance you referred to WW2.
my apologies.

 

[Zip]

sorry but while i'm aware of the work they're doing out there i assumed when you mentioned the alliance you referred to WW2.
my apologies.

Nah i mean right now, People seem to just pass us by and think its the British and the Americans doing all the work

Apologies accepted though

 

[Ak!ta]

Thats because benefits are adjusted by moving people from Unemployment to sickness benefit (if they qualify). All to do with statistics - so the government can say they have improved Unemployment figures

 

[The_Dark_Side]

Fine but I would prefer a system more like they have in the United States, where single parents HAVE to work and staying at home while being handed a better standard of living than millions who work full time is not an option.

to be honest mate there are MANY things i would love to see implemented here that work in the US.
but we both know that as we're significantly different countries what works there doesn't necessarily mean it will work here.

Just because they may be grateful doesn't mean the benefits are justified or desirable from the taxpayer's point of view

now i'm confused.
are you saying the tax credit system should be scrapped completely or that it needs overhauling as it doesn't work?
i was under the impression you were of the latter opinion but the above seems to suggest the former.

You might be right, but could you explain to me why the numbers of sickness benefit claimants has skyrocketed under Labour?

truth? i have no idea...but i don't think anyone can really say they have either with any kind of accuracy.
if the rules on claiming sickness benefit haven't changed that much ( i honestly don't know so feel free to point this out) then it could be something to do with us as a nation.
today as a population we are lazier and less honest than previous generations and this appears to be an ongoing trend.
it's more than possible we are the problem and not the Govt/benefit systems in place.

 

[The_Dark_Side]

Nah i mean right now, People seem to just pass us by and think its the British and the Americans doing all the work

believe me mate, i take MUCH more notice of the countries that SHOULD be assisting but are not.

 

[dirtydog]

now i'm confused.
are you saying the tax credit system should be scrapped completely or that it needs overhauling as it doesn't work?
i was under the impression you were of the latter opinion but the above seems to suggest the former.

Scrap it entirely, it is way too complicated. Not just for the public to understand but for the benefits staff who have to try and implement it.

truth? i have no idea...but i don't think anyone can really say they have either with any kind of accuracy.
if the rules on claiming sickness benefit haven't changed that much ( i honestly don't know so feel free to point this out) then it could be something to do with us as a nation.
today as a population we are lazier and less honest than previous generations and this appears to be an ongoing trend.
it's more than possible we are the problem and not the Govt/benefit systems in place.

Seeing as sickness benefit claims have gone up by in excess of a million in the last nine years AFAIK, then common sense would dictate that something untoward is going on there, and that many or all of the increase are not truly sick or disabled people. Remember you can't just claim it because of a disability; many of us have back or joint problems etc. It needs to be so bad that it prevents you from doing any job at all.

 

[Visage]

Scrap it entirely, it is way too complicated. Not just for the public to understand but for the benefits staff who have to try and implement it.


Seeing as sickness benefit claims have gone up by in excess of a million in the last nine years AFAIK, then common sense would dictate that something untoward is going on there, and that many or all of the increase are not truly sick or disabled people. Remember you can't just claim it because of a disability; many of us have back or joint problems etc. It needs to be so bad that it prevents you from doing any job at all.

Doesnt it need a doctors agreement though?

I could (possibly) accept that shuffling people from unemployment to sickness benefit would be something a government would do - but with the complicity of doctors? Im not so sure.

 

[The_Dark_Side]

Scrap it entirely, it is way too complicated. Not just for the public to understand but for the benefits staff who have to try and implement it.

again though, scrap it or scrap it in it's current form?

Seeing as sickness benefit claims have gone up by in excess of a million in the last nine years AFAIK, then common sense would dictate that something untoward is going on there, and that many or all of the increase are not truly sick or disabled people. Remember you can't just claim it because of a disability; many of us have back or joint problems etc. It needs to be so bad that it prevents you from doing any job at all.

i maintain that IMHO we are the problem and not the system.
now i agree that if "we" have changed then it's upto the Govt to modify the system in kind and that as they clearly haven't then this needs addressing.
i'm of the opinion that failing to change the system to keep up isn't as bad as putting in a system that is easily abused...although i agree with you that neither are very easy to swallow.

 

[dirtydog]

Doesnt it need a doctors agreement though?

I could (possibly) accept that shuffling people from unemployment to sickness benefit would be something a government would do - but with the complicity of doctors? Im not so sure.

I'm not sure how it works to be honest. AFAIK and in theory, the rules were tightened up some time ago, and you also have to see a doctor who is appointed by the benefits agency, not your own GP. But there has been such a huge increase in claimants that something seems to be rather amiss doesn't it.

 

[The_Dark_Side]

I'm not sure how it works to be honest. AFAIK and in theory, the rules were tightened up some time ago, and you also have to see a doctor who is appointed by the benefits agency, not your own GP. But there has been such a huge increase in claimants that something seems to be rather amiss doesn't it.

don't you think the sickness claims have gone up in part by people trying to add weight to their alledged injury claims?
the claims direct culture must play a part in this.

 

[dirtydog]

again though, scrap it or scrap it in its current form?

Scrap it period. We managed for many years without it. We already had JSA, income support, incapacity benefit, housing benefit and council tax benefit etc.

The best thing the government can do for parents of younger children is to provide childcare facilities, and then make them seek and take jobs just the same as if they were on the dole. And also make them sign-on every fortnight. It should be carrot and stick, not just carrot as it is now.

 

[dirtydog]

don't you think the sickness claims have gone up in part by people trying to add weight to their alledged injury claims?
the claims direct culture must play a part in this.

Who knows - but if you are right then it is Labour who introduced the claims direct culture that you speak of, into the UK (an unwelcome US import)

 

[afraser2k]

Aren't there a lot more illnesses that now qualify for sickness benefit since New Labour came into power? Could also be linked to the affects of binge drinking?

 

[cleanbluesky]

The best thing the government can do for parents of younger children is to provide childcare facilities, and then make them seek and take jobs just the same as if they were on the dole. And also make them sign-on every fortnight. It should be carrot and stick, not just carrot as it is now.

Are you of the mindset that it is better to have a menial job than no job at all?

 

[dirtydog]

Are you of the mindset that it is better to have a menial job than no job at all?

That is quite a vague question. From the point of view of the taxpayer, I believe that people should be forced to take any job they are capable of, rather than languish on generous benefits for many years. I know that there is a widespread resentment among people who work, that others do not have to - yet their standard of living is equal to or better than those who do work. This is morally wrong - and it is most certainly not what Labour envisaged when they introduced the benefits system (60 odd years ago). Benefits are supposed to help people on hard times, not provide a comfortable living and an alternative to work.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

LOL looks like gordon is an adorable person in the UK