Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [10th - 14th Feb 2012]

Okay here's my take on today just for the record

1- Suarez. I've said all along that I doubt he is a racist per say but he's done himself no favours, to begin with he should have publicly apologised to Evra, whether he believes he was in the wrong or not Evra took whatever was said in an offensive way and that is enough of a reason to apologise. For him then not to shake Evra's hand today and act like he's the one that's been wronged in all of this is genuinely baffling.

2- The handshake itself. It does look like Evra was less keen to shake Suarez's hand than he had been the other Liverpool players but nonetheless his hand was there and it was Suarez the snubbed gesture completely. As for Rio subsequently not shaking Suarez's hand I honestly think that's being blown out of all proportion, if you look at it by the time Suarez gets to Ferdinand Evra is still holding onto his arm and basically the whole thing was starting to descend into chaos so I don't think anything should be read into that.
I've heard Welbeck didn't shake Suarez's hand either, obviously that wasn't shown on TV nor do I know where Welbeck was positioned in the lineup but assuming he was near the back and Suarez had obliged with the niceties with the rest of our team (bar Evra and Ferdinand) then Welbeck would have been best severed to keep his name out of the headlines and shook Suarez's hand if it was there to be shaken.

3- Evra's celebrations. I think it's pretty hard not to concede he was doing it to wind up Liverpool, I don't believe he targeted Suarez specifically though because at no point do you see him look at Suarez, Suarez just appears in the shot behind Evra after a moment or two. If you compare it to what Keown did all those years back when he clearly targeted his celebrations towards RVN then what Evra did today was not even remotely similar. That said it's not surprising certain Liverpool players did react the way they did.

4- KKK post match. For once I though he was quite dignified, he lost his cool with Shreeves eventually but if he genuinely didn't know what Suarez had done pre match then he was probably unprepared for the question. Had he known that Suarez refused to shake Evra's hand he probably would have refused to give Sky an interview like he did with the written media afterwards.

5- Fergie post match. OTT. For one refusing to shake someone's hand shouldn't under any circumstances equal the end of their career. For two it's got nothing to do with us how Liverpool handle their players nor should we concern ourselves with how their players represent them either. Fair enough if Fergie thought Suarez was a disgrace (as do many I would imagine) but leave it there. Fergie's now created a headline that we'll be reading for days and referring to for years.

Only thing left for me to say is what did Robbo do to get banned? :p

Good post.
 
So why did he grab him when he clearly had his hand closer by his side to skip him? He very much so wanted to shake his hand, no?

Fine, FWIW I agree Evra moved his hand down, possibly to force Suarez in to actively reaching out and shaking his hand rather than doing so passively. However, he certainly didn't withdraw it and suggesting Evra engineered a situation to make Suarez look bad is utterly hilarious.
 
Genuine question. Does anybody give a **** about the pre-match handshakes? What would Suarez and Evra shaking hands prove? They'd still dislike each. A false show of respect changes nothing.

Why should players be told to shake each others hands? Post-match hand shakes of the players own choosing means something, being forced to doesn't.
Fine, FWIW I agree Evra moved his hand down, possibly to force Suarez in to actively reaching out and shaking his hand rather than doing so passively. However, he certainly didn't withdraw it and suggesting Evra engineered a situation to make Suarez look bad is utterly hilarious.

I've not seen all the pictures and videos etc but if Evra did move his hand away to make Suarez reach out, could it be possibly interpreted as a snub by Evra? Why's the emphasis on Suarez to instigate the handshake and not Evra or both players equally?
 
Certainly a different gesture than all the other players got, are you trying to tell me it was coincidence that it just happened to be at that moment?

He moved his hand a little bit, and then Suarez completely ignored him, so what does it even matter?

I mean, the whole grab of Suarez's arm was because Evra was still looking for a hand shake after he moved away. Stop trying to pretend he was at fault for that, it's frankly pathetic. There's plenty to blame Evra for, but not that.

EDIT: God, here we go. Another 20 page thread on some irrelevant dissection of a minor incident. Got to love this place sometimes.
 
He moved his hand a little bit, and then Suarez completely ignored him, so what does it even matter?

Suarez could assume he doesn't want to shake his hand after retracting it a bit? I would considering the circumstances.

As for your edit, the football was ****, we need something to discuss :p
 
1. Disagree he should apologise if he doesn't think he has done anything wrong, he should explain what was said and how it was meant, no need to apologise.

2. Evra was playing for the incident in reality, and Ferdinand said he refused to shake Suarez's hand after due to not shaking Evra's hand even though it could be argued it was Evra who snubbed the hand shake or it was will I won't I from both players.

Also I don't think Suarez was going to insist Evra shook his hand so if he looked like he wasn't going to do it don't force the matter.

3. Blatantly wumming fans+Suarez, I'd like it if our players did it so can't really complain.

4. Didn't see it.

5. Hypocrite, hardly surprising, wanted the whole matter put to bed and not talked about yet continually goes on about it.

Purdy, if I call you a ***** in a joking manner and you take offence to it then I'd apologise. Whether you think you're in the wrong or not if you've offended someone you apologise. You might not like it but it's the grown up thing to do. If you think differently then you've got a lot of growing up to do.

2- I don't think Evra was playing for anything, could there of been some genuine reluctance? Of course. It could also quite possibly be a case that Evra was simply waiting to see if Suarez would make the first move. The pictures don't lie though Evra's hand was there to be shaken and Suarez had no intention of doing so. If you think otherwise then there's no point continuing the debate because your bias is clearly clouding your opinion. If Rio has admitted he didn't shake Suarez's hand for a reason then like Welbeck he'd of been best served to keep his name out of the headlines. Alas I haven't read anything where he's admitted that.

3- Evra wasn't winding up your fans specifically at all, he aimed his celebrations nowhere near the section where your fans were housed. Winding up your players/rubbing their noises in it? Quite possibly. Again though it clearly wasn't solely directed at Suarez whatsoever.

As for Fergie I think it's a little harsh calling him a hypocrite? Between the original incident and the result of the trail the club didn't comment. He mentioned it in the build up to the game because they were questions that needed to be answered likewise post game. There's not a manager in the world that could have avoided talking about the incident before the game and not a manager in the world that could have avoided talking about handshake gate after the game.
 
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Between the original incident and the result of the trail the club didn't comment.

Yes he did. Just because he says, "but we're not going to talk about it because the FA asked us not to" at the end of talking about it, it doesn't mean he hasn't.

He commented on the incident in some form many times (including a huge interview with the Sunday papers) but then qualified it by saying "but we're not going to talk about it.....".
 
I've not seen all the pictures and videos etc but if Evra did move his hand away to make Suarez reach out, could it be possibly interpreted as a snub by Evra? Why's the emphasis on Suarez to instigate the handshake and not Evra or both players equally?

It's not a snub but rather I don't think Evra wanted to do all the work, so to speak. The fact he then tried to clatter Suarez 20 seconds in suggests he was a bit wound up by the non handshake, if he hadn't wanted to shake hands then there wouldn't have been that same tension. The point remains that Evra partly withdrew his hand - Suarez did not even extend his.

Edit: there should really be no debate, compare Suarez and Evra with Suarez and Ferdinand. Suarez holds his hand out to Ferdinand for some time before moving on, he didn't even bother with Evra.
 
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EDIT: God, here we go. Another 20 page thread on some irrelevant dissection of a minor incident. Got to love this place sometimes.

I went out and came back and had hoped that it would all be the last of it, but no :(

It's usually only a select few as well. Important posts and genuinely decent information gets lost amongst the absolute madness that is, reading here is no longer valuable it's just a chore.

(This covers supporters from all clubs that are mostly as bad as each other, probably seems like more MU fans because there is more of us on here)

I must admit though the Man United fans arguing amongst themselves hurts me the most sometimes :D
 
It's not a snub but rather I don't think Evra wanted to do all the work, so to speak. The fact he then tried to clatter Suarez 20 seconds in suggests he was a bit wound up by the non handshake, if he hadn't wanted to shake hands then there wouldn't have been that same tension. The point remains that Evra partly withdrew his hand - Suarez did not even extend his.

I don't think the handshake changes anything. A token gesture of a handshake isn't going to change their feelings for each other.
 
Yes he did. Just because he says, "but we're not going to talk about it because the FA asked us not to" at the end of talking about it, it doesn't mean he hasn't.

He commented on the incident in some form many times (including a huge interview with the Sunday papers) but then qualified it by saying "but we're not going to talk about it.....".

Well you'll have to refresh my memory then because I genuinely can't recall Fergie or the club specifically talking about the case. If I'm wrong then I retract my previous comment
 
Purdy, if I call you a ***** in a joking manner and you take offence to it then I'd apologise. Whether you think you're in the wrong or not if you've offended someone you apologise. You might not like it but it's the grown up thing to do. If you think differently then you've got a lot of growing up to do.

2- I don't think Evra was playing for anything, could there of been some genuine reluctance? Of course. It could also quite possibly be a case that Evra was simply waiting to see if Suarez would make the first move. The pictures don't lie though Evra's hand was there to be shaken and Suarez had no intention of doing so. If you think otherwise then there's no point continuing the debate because your bias is clearly clouding your opinion. If Rio has admitted he didn't shake Suarez's hand for a reason then like Welbeck he'd of been best served to keep his name out of the headlines. Alas I haven't read anything where he's admitted that.

3- Evra wasn't winding up your fans at all, he aimed his celebrations nowhere near the section where your fans were housed. Winding up your players/rubbing their noises in it? Quite possibly. Again though it clearly wasn't solely directed at Suarez whatsoever.

As for Fergie how is he a hypocrite? Between the original incident and the result of the trail the club didn't comment. He mentioned it in the build up to the game because they were questions that needed to be answered likewise post game. There's not a manager in the world that could have avoided talking about the incident before the game and not a manager in the world that could have avoided talking about handshake gate after the game.

Yes okay I see your point, but I would accept it was a joke and when you saw that I'm sure you would apologise, Evra never really had any intention on just seeing it as a cultural misunderstanding did he though? An apology behind closed doors do you think would have made any difference?

I personally think Evra is playing for it, Suarez may or may not have ever gone for the hand shake, once he saw the hand retract he may have thought **** that, I don't know.
Rio did admit it saying he lost all respect for the guy and some other stuff.

EDIT: No idea about Welbeck, I personally wouldn't shake Suarez's hand if I thought he was racist towards one of my team mates either, I'm assuming they think this is the case.

Wumming our fans at their armchairs :p, and certainly wumming the players in my opinion, but like I said, if one of our players did it I wouldn't blame them.

And Ferguson could have held to his word of just wanting to be focussed on the football and said no comment. And also a hypocrite in that if he wants Suarez out of football so badly he has had a few players himself he should have booted out if these are his standards.
 
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I think we may have to say the Suarez/Evra matter is now closed on here as it is taking over

quick opinions as to whether folks want this ( no expanation or debate, just your opinion )
 
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