Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [17th - 22nd December 2011]

[Tunney]

Just back from the game. I haven't seen any replays so excuse me if I spout nonsense.

I thought Chelsea played really well and Villas-Boas is shaping up to be a really good manager for them. Chelsea's shape was excellent - they attacked in numbers, defended in numbers and used the space really well. Spurs were lucky to get away with so many wasted Chelsea efforts on goal.

I don't understand the Bale haters on here. He created Spurs' goal and looked like a threat all evening. Admittedly, he looks even better when Lennon is on the other side; they have a great partnership together despite being on opposite wings. Both players are picking up plenty of assists and goals this season.

Spurs played OK. B- overall. Probably lucky to come away with a draw, although it did look like their was a handball leading up to Chelsea's goal (perhaps not given that the BBC don't even mention it).

 

[cm1179]

To answer your question though the difference is when United win 1-0 9 times out of 10 it's because we haven't played well. My criticsm of Spurs isn't that they're not playing well (so to speak) but that they're playing with far too much complacency

When Untied win 1-0 I'm relieved because it usually means we've scraped another win when I watch Spurs though I'm frustrated that they've won a game 2-0 when they should have scored 4 or 5.

Maybe I expect more from Spurs than I should?

well, i'm quite happy to watch spurs as imo they are entertaining, that includes the chances we don't take and mix ups at the back and you're obviously happy watching a scrappy 1-0 ... am i right?

bottom line is, i don't think you're expecting too much from spurs, it's a case of winning, no matter what the defecit. i would like us to score more, don't get me wrong but to pull up the fact of us only scoring 4 against liverpool (you scored 1, didn't you, we'd scored 1 when it was 11v11 too and were the far better team, not our fault the players got sent off)

you put 5 past fulham, we were backs to the wall holding onto a 2-1 lead for most of our game against them and nicked it 3-1 at the end. again, pure entertainment as the resilience is just as entertaining (to me) as the attack.

 

[Andybtsn]

No supporter enjoys **** up's in defence

I'd take a win over entertaining football any day of the week.

 

[cm1179]

No supporter enjoys **** up's in defence

there isn't as many as there used to be but the spurs back 4 is still a bit of a circus at times. aslong as we remain resilent and keep the belief, i don't mind, shows great spirit.

we've recieved 2 drubbings both came from the manchester teams this season, that's not bad compared to how we used to be.

 

[Tunney]

Hey, at least we didn't have Gomes pushing the ball into his own next and giving away a penalty this year.

 

[Tom84]

well, i'm quite happy to watch spurs as imo they are entertaining, that includes the chances we don't take and mix ups at the back and you're obviously happy watching a scrappy 1-0 ... am i right?

I'm most definitely not happy watching us scrape 1-0 wins no but you've got to understand you can't compare Spurs with us because expectations as different. We have to win every game and with that comes the pressure that you're just relieved that you've got the win come the end of the 90 minutes.

Spurs on the other hand have a certain degree of freedom given I imagine their aim for the season is to simply finish in the top 4 and objective that has plenty of margin for error. So if Spurs are playing with no real pressure on them why do they play with so much complacency?

To me (and this is actually a very back handed complement tbh) Spurs play so much within themselves its almost like watching a side challenging for the title that's simply crossing off the games as they go. I guess I just don't view Spurs at the moment as title challengers which is why I find it hard to get my head round why you play the way you do.

 

[cm1179]

Hey, at least we didn't have Gomes pushing the ball into his own next and giving away a penalty this year.

that's why friedel has been so important for us. some of the relatively straightforward parry's and saves he's made so far, i just know gomes would've spilled right into the path of an opposing forward.

 

[cm1179]

I'm most definitely not happy watching us scrape 1-0 wins no but you've got to understand you can't compare Spurs with us because expectations as different. We have to win every game and with that comes the pressure that you're just relieved that you've got the win come the end of the 90 minutes.

Spurs on the other hand have a certain degree of freedom given I imagine their aim for the season is to simply finish in the top 4 and objective that has plenty of margin for error. So if Spurs are playing with no real pressure on them why do they play with so much complacency?

To me (and this is actually a very back handed complement tbh) Spurs play so much within themselves its almost like watching a side challenging for the title that's simply crossing off the games as they go. I guess I just don't view Spurs at the moment as title challengers which is why I find it hard to get my head round why you play the way you do.

that's not really a great advert for the premier league lol. i think you'll find every other team has to and tries to win every game too!

what you're essentially saying is, it's a two horse race and only united can halt city? hey, you could be right but to say there is extra pressure on you to win games is a little hmmm elitist?

who plays with more pressure on them, blackburn or man utd?

 

[Tom84]

that's not really a great advert for the premier league lol. i think you'll find every other team has to and tries to win every game too!

what you're essentially saying is, it's a two horse race and only united can halt city? hey, you could be right but to say there is extra pressure on you to win games is a little hmmm elitist?

who plays with more pressure on them, blackburn or man utd?

To put it bluntly yes. I guess I wont view Spurs as title challengers until you're out in front and be there for several months. Well that and when I see the cutting edge that I've been speaking about.

As for the other bits yes I'm sure every teams tries to win every game they play, does every team have to win every game? No, of course not. There's no expectation on Fulham or Stoke for example to win every game nor do their fans expect it. Teams that have title aspirations though do need to win every game hence why so much was made of AVB losing his job when the results weren't forthcoming for Chelsea.

As for Blackburn, right now with the situation they're in of course there's more pressure on them to win a game than United (albeit it's a different form of pressure) but rewind back to the start of the season and there was no pressure on Blackburn then was there?

 

[cm1179]

To put it bluntly yes. I guess I wont view Spurs as title challengers until you're out in front and be there for several months.

i do understand what you're saying about man utd (even if i do find it a little elitist, may be justified though with you constantly being the 'opponent' of the challenger for a long time now) i also don't believe spurs can win the pl but we're gonna have a good go! if someone offered me 3rd right now, i'd take it though.

 

[FrankJH]

i do understand what you're saying about man utd (even if i do find it a little elitist, may be justified though with you constantly being the 'opponent' of the challenger for a long time now) i also don't believe spurs can win the pl but we're gonna have a good go! if someone offered me 3rd right now, i'd take it though.

As Tom suggested, quite correctly imo , every team go out to play for a win, but only title challangers are EXPECTED to win every game (even though every team has a bogie ground Im sure)

Managers and teams from throughout the league have different pressures on them; Norwich , Swansea and QPR have exceeded expectations in the way they are playing as much as the results (and so pressure is off slightly). Newcastle exceeded expectations for a while but Im sure even the owner /management knew it wouldnt last, and they are settling into a position in the table they were probably expecting from this season. Arsenal are the perenial 3rd/4th place team, play a wonderful game but their defence is always quite shakey (for a team so high) but qualifying for knock out CL is probably required to pay for the stadium. City have spent a huge fortune on getting a number of flair players and showing what money can buy (which brings its own pressure). Chelsea have bought a new manager who is expected to keep on winning......and Utd are aiming for title no 20 with a combination of old warhorses and youth with little to no experience with a Manager that simply DEMANDS the best

In one sense its the clubs chasing 3rd/4th that are under the biggest pressure - Arsenal and Chelsea probably NEED to be in those positions financially , Spurs look as though they are capable of doing it purely on merit , but Liverpool have already struck the woodwork more than any other team the whole of last season, and Im sure that will change in the 2nd half of the season (maybe slightly dark horse now, but could easily change)

 

[HangTime]

Liverpool have already struck the woodwork more than any other team the whole of last season

The thing that gets me about that stat is they've scored a grand total of 20 goals in 17 matches (compared to say the bottom club Blackburn, who've outscored them both home and away) and hit the woodwork 17(?) times, so even if literally every single one of those times had resulted in an additional goal, and there was no negative effect on those other 20 goals, their goal tally would still be dwarfed by that of the Manchester clubs.
Even if you look at their 3 rivals for 3rd spot, the lowest scoring of those (Spurs) have 32 goals from fewer matches, not counting those incorrectly disallowed against Stoke and Chelsea.

 

[Tom84]

The thing that gets me about that stat is they've scored a grand total of 20 goals in 17 matches (compared to say the bottom club Blackburn, who've outscored them both home and away)

no way? Gonna have to check that myself.....

EDIT: Only 4 goals in it but that is surprising!!

 

[Tunney]

Spurs don't have the depth to win the title. Great first XI, mediocre second string. You only had to look at the two benches tonight to see that.

Even 4th would be an amazing achievement IMO.

 

[FrankJH]

The thing that gets me about that stat is they've scored a grand total of 20 goals in 17 matches (compared to say the bottom club Blackburn, who've outscored them both home and away) and hit the woodwork 17(?) times, so even if literally every single one of those times had resulted in an additional goal, and there was no negative effect on those other 20 goals, their goal tally would still be dwarfed by that of the Manchester clubs.
Even if you look at their 3 rivals for 3rd spot, the lowest scoring of those (Spurs) have 32 goals from fewer matches, not counting those incorrectly disallowed against Stoke and Chelsea.

I totally get where you are going - but Spurs are also conceding more from less games also. I think its fair to say that Liverpool could have got a good handful of points more from being fractions of an inch more accurate

There is a big IF that all that "luck" in additional accuracy wouldnt have some effect the other end as you rightly suggest, but it wouldnt surprise me to see LFC up in the top four come May

 

[Tom84]

Must say it would surprise me, just cannot see them finishing ahead of two of Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs. If a top 4 finish was between them and 4 other teams then maybe, them and 5 other teams though seems a big ask imo

 

[Snax]

AVB is getting massively irritating now. He just copies what he thinks Mourinh wouldo/say but with no personality. It is a giant posing routine to try and mask that he is out of his depth.

Terry rolling around on the floor in fake agony and then saving to the bench that he doesn't need a physio because he is just trying to get Adebayor a second yellow is disgusting

Bale needs to stop diving. He also needs more protection from refs.

I thought Howard Webb did well. 2 inside goals in two matches being disallowed is getting stupid. The linesmen of the premier league are not fit for purpose. They need fitness training and to have their eyesight tests regularly.

 

[Gustov]

Sat so far away from the spurs fans last night.

 

[elmuzzy66.]

VDV out for 3 games with hamstring injury.

 

[Gustov]

Epic picture