Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [19 - 23rd January 2013]

Those were from the Man Utd defence being cut open not from crosses. That would worry me more than De Gea's flapping at crosses.

That's slightly embellishing the truth, the one Defoe had that Ferdinand blocked was due to Evra diving in on Lennon leaving the rest of defence exposed. I'll give you Dempsey's chance was well worked albeit with an element of luck given he was never in total control of the ball.

Dont worry about us either our defence hasn't been great this season at all and yet we're not doing too badly, only reason I'd worry is if we had someone like Defoe up front and not RVP :p

it was replayed during the game?

are you going to bleat on about how you should've had a penalty or admit a draw was a fair result?

If I'm bleating on about anything it's the fact that you alone seem to think Spurs should have had a penalty nothing about the one we should have had, personally I'm of the opinion that you cant rely on referee's to give you penalties to win games (whether you deserve said penalty or not)
 
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i think you'll find i only mentioned the penalty again once the united incident came up.

i've mostly said how we deserved the draw.
 
I completely disagree.

We have one of the best goalkeeping prospects in the world who, even at his current level, is holding his own and has a huge amount of potential still to be fulfilled.

We have a very good back four, with two ageing but still world class centre backs and excellent backup for them. We have arguably the best RB in the league this season. LB is a bit of a problem but Evra has been more solid this season and if Fabio fulfils his potential, as some of his QPR performances are suggesting, then we are sorted there too.

Midfield is more problematic but Carrick has been brilliant this season and Cleverley is developing rapidly. It is well known that we are a little short of options here but if I had a choice between signing someone or giving the likes of Cleverley a chance, it's a no brainer. With Scholes probable to retire this year and Fletcher out of the picture we will certainly recruit in midfield in summer but our midfield looks better this year than last, in my opinion, even if that's not saying much. The issue we have been having is tactics, not personnel. On more than one occasion this season we have looked great in one half and crap in the other.

Wingers are a funny one, we've gone from having the best set of wingers in the league to a collection of meh players. I don't know what's happened, but hopefully the return of Nani can spark a bit more competition into the positions. Young and Valencia have been coasting this year. This has been our main problem area this year, Evra and Rafael have had to do the work of two players.

We have two of the three best strikers in the league at the moment and Hernandez so there's really no room for improvement there.

To say we have only 3 world class players paints a very misleading picture of our squad, but obviously it suits your argument. If our wingers get going again and we stop sitting back on one goal leads then we are away.

I see where you're coming from. But it's based on this lovely 'potential'.

Massive champion for De Gea, he's ridiculously good at shot stopping, his distribution is just as good, but his physical presence is badly lacking at the moment, this stops him from being 'World Class' as of yet. He isn't on the level of Buffon, Casillas or Neuer... yet.

Ferdinand and Vidic's best days are behind them, they get slaughtered if they leave 5 yards behind them. Thought they were brilliant today, but it's a massive problem, and like I said, our CB's are all massively injury prone. Rafael has grown up, and is looking much more mature in the past 12 months, but I'd say debatably world class, yet. I'll give you that one though. Evra, massively suspect defensively, better than he was last season however.

Cleverley is great, I have no qualms in seeing his potential played out, more game time for him the better. But Carrick, I can't handle it, he doesn't tackle, he can't pass long distance, he doesn't move forward. He's infuriating to watch because whilst he plays possession well, he's static, he slows the play down. He's a waste of a man essentially, because anybody can be taught to play 5 yard passes sideways, Anderson and cleverly when operating together played it well, they would inter change and keep the pace within the centre, dropping when the other goes forward. Problem with Carrick, anybody paired with him has to do the leg work, it must destroy them. And when we have Carrick and Scholes in there, it's ******* nightmare. None of them are world class as of this moment.

Wingers, all so inconsistent, Valencia was great last year, this year he's been our worst player, not one single performance. Terrible. Young and Nani just puzzle me to no end. Still got my fingers crossed for Nani, but as of yet, none of them are 'world Class' Nani has moments.

Classing Kagawa as a forward player, he's world class, just needs to be utilised correctly, RVP obviously, Rooney obviously. Hernandez yes at poaching, but his other play isn't brilliant. Welbeck, dog ****.

As somebody said above, comparing us to Chelsea and city, yes our team has a structure that works domestically. But we'll never touch European Glory with this set of players. It's missing 2-3 genuine class, performing right now, and not what could be or should be.
 
Please stop talking about Carrick shipinabottle because based on your comments about him today (forgetting all the crap in the past) you've clearly never seen him kick a ball in your life
 
If I'm bleating on about anything it's the fact that you alone seem to think Spurs should have had a penalty nothing about the one we should have had, personally I'm of the opinion that you cant rely on referee's to give you penalties to win games (whether you deserve said penalty or not)

The ref was poor. You can't complain about the Rooney foul when Evra should have collected a second yellow before that for an off-the-ball professional foul.

The ref's poor performance just about balanced out between the two sides.
 
riiiiiiiiight

He was the best player in the bundesliga for (almost) 2 seasons in a row, a league which is arguably as competitive as the PL.

It's his first season here, and has been injured for a while.

He IS world class, whether he can make the switch to the PL and be utilised is a different matter.
 
He was the best player in the bundesliga for (almost) 2 seasons in a row, a league which is arguably as competitive as the PL.

It's his first season here, and has been injured for a while.

He IS world class, whether he can make the switch to the PL and be utilised is a different matter.

CAN HE DO IT ON A COLD TUESDAY NIGHT IN STOKE? That is the true benchmark of a World Class player*.

*according to Sky and the gutter English press.
 
I love this fascination that some how players aren't really 'World class' until they've done it in the Premier League. Hilarious.
 
DM lives in a world where every club knew Michu was going to turn out great and just chose to sign player x for £10m instead. He was the same when Cabaye, Ba etc turned out to be decent signings for Newcastle too.

hindsightmaster

What complete tosh, my dad supports West Ham, I saw every game Ba played, his quality was evident, he played 6 months for West Ham and had a very good scoring record, and looked a class above(gangly and weird, but effective and scored well). Michu wasn't from some league no one ever heard of, he played in the same league Santi Cazorla did, he outscored Santi last year, and if anyone between those two is lazy its Santi.

Ba was obviously already more than good enough for the premier league, being as he'd been there and done that. I can only assume that Gervinho looked as good as he does now, and in preseason and for his country as he did before we bought him. He was, and still is crap, you can spot a good player relatively easily, you just have to be looking. the few times I saw Cabaye before he moved, he looked like the guy pulling the strings, not the guy who is only "good" when other people set up goals for them (gervinho).

I never said Cabaye would play well in this league, I've never claimed he was a certainly brilliant player, I said for 5 mil for a known player that any scout with half a brain should have seen play, he was a great deal and well worth the risk.

This is where football teams live, and fail or succeed, risk. Michu scored 17 and cost 2 mil, if you watched him play you'd know that is so far into the "safe" area of the risk scale its laughable. Cabaye was also a safe buy, as was Tiote, as was Ba. 4+mil a season plus a big signing on fee for a player you already have, that you know isn't good enough on the incredibly slim chance that in 3 years he might be a completely different player is at the completely opposite end of the risk scale, its throwing good money away on something that is almost certainly not going to happen.

I've said countless times, I don't care if Wenger FAILS in the transfer market, why, I'd prefer to go out and get relative unknowns at 2mil each on low wages and hope one is good(this factors in that a good manager/scout should be looking at guys with decent potential), than throw the same money away on guys like Diaby, Denilson, Song, Sagna, guys you already know AREN'T good enough.

Fail trying, is fine, fail without even trying, just throwing money at players you already know won't ever bring you success, that is completely unforgiveable.

So smeg off with your insinuations of what you claim I've said. This has always been my take, 14mil on a striker that looks crap and has an average at best striking record in a poor french league is a huge gamble, and it failed badly and now we're stuck with him.

Spend 5mil on the same player, and at half the wages, he wouldn't be any better, but you've put FAR less money on the line, that player doesn't stop you buying other players, and the chance to move him on is pretty good with small losses. Buying Cabaye for around 5mil, with a low wage is the same, he could have flopped, but he wouldn't have cost you 30+mil to find out he's a flop.

Ba was a known, Michu was an incredibly low risk good option, Cabaye was relatively known though unproven in this league, looked class AND was pretty low risk. That is what made them great buys. If Michu flopped badly, its 2mil and a low wage, you can move him on easily enough, but his cost doesn't prevent you from buying someone else in Jan.

There are good and bad decisions, insane risk with little reward is a bad decision to make even if the player turns out to be a phenom, it was a bad decision. If you buy a low risk player and he turns out awful or great, it was still a good decision to buy.
 
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I just hate the phrase world class, it has no defined meaning (some people think it means top 5 players in their position in the world, some people think it means AS GOOD AS MESSI) It always leads to arguments.
 
Please stop talking about Carrick shipinabottle because based on your comments about him today (forgetting all the crap in the past) you've clearly never seen him kick a ball in your life

Outside of the commentators, Carrick was poor yesterday. Sure he played well as a make shift left back and defender, because he made a lot of good tackles/blocks, but it was his absolute lack of imposing himself in midfield that led you to losing points. How SPurs didn't score a truckload I don't know, they got very unlucky, dominated you in every way that mattered. Utd absolutely and completely lost the fight in midfield, just because Carrick helped out in defence well.... he's a midfielder, he was played in midfield, he didn't impose himself in the slightest in midfield and thats his job.

He played badly for me, as an extra man in defence, he did well, but thats part of his job, a better left back (as I seem to recall many of his blocks and good work coming closer to the left back area) would have helped, but he was easily, easily by passed in central midfield time and time again.

His being so involved in defence just screams to me, failed in his first job of winning midfield.

25 shots to 5, 8 on target to 2. Dembele/Parker owned Carrick in midfield and this ultimately led to their utter domination. This in a game where I feel Bale, Dempsey, Defoe all had poor games and as a goal threat, Dembele didn't offer much himself(he had a good game but didn't look like scoring). If Dempsey and Defoe didn't dwell over their chances then Utd could quite easily have been thumped and a huge part of that was Spurs having no trouble in midfield, and when they pushed up, being relatively left alone just outside the box.... with a midfield of Jones and Carrick, I don't know who else you'd blame for the lack of defence and fight in central midfield, where Utd lost the game.
 
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Dembele and Parker "owned" Carrick only once Cleverley went off and we effectively had 3 players playing right wing (Rafael, Jones who got sent to mark Bale and Valencia) and one playing centre mid.

Even after that he did a brilliant job of intercepting balls and supporting the defence but he struggled after that because there was no-one to pass to.
 
That's the great thing about Bale - teams send two or three players to mark him, leaving space for teammates like Lennon. Bale doesn't have to do anything spectacular to have a big influence on a game.
 
The thing is Rafael was doing fine with him, Jones is just not a midfielder and bringing Valencia on was pointless. We lost the points because of negativity, it's as simple as that.
 
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The thing is Rafael was doing fine with him, Jones was is just not a midfielder and bringing Valencia on was pointless. We lost the points because of negativity, it's as simple as that.

Yup, and it ended up that Lennon who was actually having a good game was left to Evra alone as we seemingly had no left midfielder and Carrick had to drop in and cover. Carrick did well up against him but I still had my heart in mouth every time Lennon isolated him in the box.

I don't know why we always set up to counter the opposition, we have good enough players to trouble any side but they can do very little when they're given no freedom.

Really one of the few things that genuinely frustrates me about our side is that we've lost our identity in the last five or so years and show teams too much respect.
 
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