Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [1st - 4th December 2017]

"lunging"

"studs first"

Neither of those things are true.

You realise when a player is running they have to lift their feet off the ground? They don't slide like they're ice skating. Lunging with studs raised is for those challenges where you throw yourself in almost horizontally with your studs at shin/knee height. Calling that challenge studs first is as silly as saying a player falling on someone is going in studs first. Bellerin was lying on the ground, not in a remotely natural position.
 
Shamikebab said:
"lunging"

"studs first"

Neither of those things are true.

You realise when a player is running they have to lift their feet off the ground? They don't slide like they're ice skating. Lunging with studs raised is for those challenges where you throw yourself in almost horizontally with your studs at shin/knee height. Calling that challenge studs first is as silly as saying a player falling on someone is going in studs first. Bellerin was lying on the ground, not in a remotely natural position.
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Come on Shami, you can't still be trying to say he was just running. There's a clear change to his stride, his leg straightens out and yes, he goes studs first into Bellerin. If you don't like the word lunge then change it for stretching - either way the result is the same, his force is all going down into the challenge through a straight leg, it's dangerous.
 
Yes his leg straightens when he hits the leg that is suddenly below him.

I disagree it's dangerous. Nothing would have happened if both players stay on their feet and make the challenge. The only problem is because Bellerin did something completely unnatural and lay down in front of someone sprinting. Shock horror, this caused an accident. It's a yellow at most.
 
His stride changes before he touches Bellerin though! He stretches out his leg and has gone studs first down into Bellerin - that's not sprinting. I suspect he's done it intentionally (why else challenge like that?) but even if he's just tried to win the ball in that way, it's still dangerous and it's still a red card.

If all Pogba done was sprint then it's not even a foul and I fully expect Utd will successfully appeal the red card. Given that it was never a red card and he's going to miss their most important game of the season they'll 100% appeal the red.
 
Oh so you still think it's intentional, but you still can't think of a single reason why it would be intentional?

Take Rojo's challenge that got a yellow card where he caught Sanchez on the foot. it's no different to that, the only difference is Sanchez wasn't laying down (Well until afterwards where he did his patented triple tuck and roll), it's the same height and just as 'studs first' So why wasn't that a red?
 
BaZ87 said:
No you can't say Bellerin was just unfortunate - he was put at risk by the way Pogba went into the challenge. As soon as you're lunging into a challenge with a straight leg and all your force going down into the challenge it's dangerous - if a ref (clearly) sees anybody challenge like that then they're getting sent off.
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or it could be argued - why was bellerin challenging Pogba like that in the first place (kneeling down like that) - fairly strange way to tackle in that position to start with

At the speed of the game at that point once Bellerin has knelt basically right infront of one of the fastest cm's out there, there is always going to be contact, Pogba didn't have any time to avoid contact (nigh on impossible to change stride pattern so quickly at that speed)

I'm not blaming bellerin at all, and I can see why the red was given, but there wasn't any clear intent (like Gerrard's stamp on Herrera for example) and it was a combination of events in quick time made it unavoidable

It was a nasty coming together and nothing more


edit - it also looks like in the kick of the ball before , Pogba strikes it just a little further than actually intended which is why he is already stretching when Bellerin kneels infront of him which doesn't help the reading of the situation
 
BaZ87 said:
If you don't think that lunging into a challenge with a straight leg, studs first going down into the opponent fits that criteria then fine but you're going to be constantly disappointed when players get sent off for it because, if seen, refs will always hand out reds for those challenges.
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I can't see a straight leg in any of the vids/pictures. If you can find one I may be persuaded to soften my position.
 
Shamikebab said:
Oh so you still think it's intentional, but you still can't think of a single reason why it would be intentional?

Take Rojo's challenge that got a yellow card where he caught Sanchez on the foot. it's no different to that, the only difference is Sanchez wasn't laying down (Well until afterwards where he did his patented triple tuck and roll), it's the same height and just as 'studs first' So why wasn't that a red?
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I gave a reason, he was upset at Bellerin having a worse haircut than him. When you were complaining about the Brighton player lunging in studs first on Ibra last weekend did you question whether he meant it because Ibra hadn't done anything to upset him?

I have no idea why he would have done it but the way in which he changes his stride pattern makes me suspect he's intended it but as somebody said earlier, only he knows. It's besides the point though because even if he didn't intend it, its still a red card.
SpeedFreak said:
I can't see a straight leg in any of the vids/pictures. If you can find one I may be persuaded to soften my position.
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Watch the video Shami linked earlier in the thread - his leg straightens as he's stretching as he goes into the challenge. Stills can sometimes be a bit misleading and make things look worse but here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQHnV_8XcAASgLC.jpg

If that's Pogba's sprinting technique then I take back what I said.
 
1huaFZi.jpg


Even added a helpful line for guidance.

Apparently not straight leg, studs aren't first and all part of his natural running stride.

In other news, pigs were seen flying over the stadium.
 
That's a red card even if Bellarin had stuck a normal leg in, you can't go in like that.

In other news, Utd will appeal it and the FA will give in to their demands :D
 
Shamikebab said:
Yes that photo with Lingard 80% obscuring his leg is fantastic. You aren't a lawyer are you :D
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You can clearly see his hip and his ankle though, it doesn't take a genius to figure out where the rest of his leg is. Unless of course you employ the same sort of logic that leads you to look at the picture and say something hilarious like he wasn't tackling studs first too.

Amazes me that people will continue to argue that this somehow wasn't, at best, an exceptionally poor challenge.

I particularly liked when you tried to blame Bellerin for putting his leg where Pogba was tackling.
 
You've got shares in Pogba haven't you Shami? ;) If his leg isn't straight in that pic then he's got more serious problems than a red card :p

As I said, I look forward to Utd successfully appealing the red card. Given his importance to the team and the importance of the match he's going to miss, even if there was the slightest doubt that it was a red card you'd expect them to appeal, given that it was never a red card in a million years it's a certainty that they will, right?
 
BaZ87 said:
I gave a reason, he was upset at Bellerin having a worse haircut than him. When you were complaining about the Brighton player lunging in studs first on Ibra last weekend did you question whether he meant it because Ibra hadn't done anything to upset him?

I have no idea why he would have done it but the way in which he changes his stride pattern makes me suspect he's intended it but as somebody said earlier, only he knows. It's besides the point though because even if he didn't intend it, its still a red card.
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Link? I don't remember the challenge

So other than dumb reasons like haircut you don't have a reason? Shouldn't people be innocent until proven guilty? I'm not surprised omnomnom has jumped to thinking Pogba is a murderer because well he has prior silly statements. But I'm genuinely disappointed that your first reaction baz is that pogba has gone in to injure him, that's a baffling reaction.
 
SpeedFreak said:
A front on view isn't really useful.
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You can clearly see his leg is straight though.

If people are genuinely going to sit here and say his leg wasn't straight and his studs weren't first with a straight face, i'm not really sure where else this discussion can go.
 
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